Dishonest health-care debate

Hahahaha.... well, I guess we know the real identity of either kurtsimmen or allablaze now! Partisan garbage like this makes me laugh. Republicans are all about big corporations, oil, etc., and their coporate friends orchestrated all these "phony" protests. This is just like when the GOP was in power and they all tried to distract us with how evil the Dems were - it's funny how they use the SAME EXACT playbook and it's sad how people keep falling for it like the sucker who worte this letter. Wake up, people. The Republicans are not in charge anymore. You can either be in denial and live in the past like kurtsimmen or allablaze (who were too cowardly to give us that list yesterday), or you can start worrying about today.

DonF,

I'm convinced there is only 1 Liberal on this site using different screen names.  The letter is an embarrasment and it has the same structure as our nutty resident Liberal's postings.  A bunch of words strung together with a period at the end.  Then another bunch of words, followed by a period.

The PG should require that letters be sent in the mail.  They could then scan them and post them as they were received.  Then there could be a contest to see who could count the exact number of drool stains.  Since it's in black & white, we could also guess which colored crayon was used to write it.

You know the saddest thing about this letter is the P-G printed it.  This is an obvious put on.  Noone could be that (I'm sorry for what I'm about to say) stupid or closed minded. Come on P-G I'm sure you get letters that can spark debate.  

I'm sorry, did this guy err in some detail? :)

I think it does mark a turning point; this letter did not include a reference to W. or she who should never have been named (VP candidate).

"Those phony protests at the town hall meetings and the march on Washington"

I've heard this ad nauseum in the left media and here on this blog.  So I ask this question of all who want - no, demand health care for all.  

Where were you all summer?  Why weren't you marching on Washington?  How about your Tea parties, or whatever drink you prefer?

It's easy to sit back and grouse about what everyone else is doing.  You are much like Obama - you talk the talk, but do not walk the walk.  You whine and call other names who work hard and strive to make change.  Not like obama, who just talks about change.

Get off your keisters like the conservatives and dems and inds. who tried to make a difference this summer and fall.  They at least did something other than rant and rave on blogs and letter to editors.

And, the only person trying to "silence any honest discussion" is your president.  He's the one trying to silence FoxNews, simply because they disagree with him and don't care for his policies.

And so I say, show me that you really want change - I mean other than ranting and raving.

"God help us if this is what passes for democracy in these United States".

Tommy Boy,

I will say it again.......... the dem's have all the ovtes they need to do anything they darn well please, so make my day and pass this awful healthcare bill so I won't have to hear from another loser democratic-marxist for at least another 100 years. My how the democrats have fallen. Pathetic.

After reading Tommy G's article, I'm convinced that the world is full of stupid people.  And our ancestors are not off the hook on this one either...after all, how could you explain someone that sets up a system that gives people like Tommy G and other liberals the same number of votes that I get....I actually read that someone called Stalin, I mean Obama, a centrist!  Talk about uneducated!  Its just a shame that that vote counts as much as mine...totally irrational.

Fair enough, Peace, but then all the Ditto-heads, extreme religious righists, and survivalists each get a vote, too. I'm not sure who'd come out ahead if there was an IQ minimum to vote, but I'd be willing to take the challenge.

To the point of opponents of a public option giving up their own government health insurance, I'd like to see a show of hands of all those who will renounce their Medicare coverage and try to buy private insurance.

No one raised their hand.  Thought so.

I would only disagree with the writer placing all the onus on the GOP.  The health care industry is an equal opportunity buyer of congresspeople.

born2run:

Great point.  Let me know if anyone raised their hands.

Did ya'll notice the March on Congress yesterday, today and tomorrow?  Give it a look - this is what democracy looks like.

And again - where are the libs marching "for" the health bill.  Too tired from all that hot air that consumes your bodies?

Polititians count on uneducated people and people with low IQ's or no curiosity or interest on what's going on around them.  They count on those that can be led, rather than lead.  They count on those that get their information from biased media, on either side.  They count on voters NOT asking questions, just doing as they are told.

You need only to listen to people on the street and at exit polls - and then you will know that I am right.  They count (votes) on it.

IKevin

I'm sorry, did this guy err in some detail? I have to admit there are no detail errors in his letter. You need details for any to be in error.  I read a lot to feelings, opinion and anger, but saw no detail.  Of course opinions and feelings can't be wrong.

Born2

I had no choice in Medicare.  It was taken out of my pay for how many years and based on what I earned. I have Medicare now and pay for it on a quartly basis.  I still work and they still take medicare out of my pay, so I pay $96.40 twice a month (double, but don't get double the benefits).  Seem fair to you?  Our gov at work. I might raise my hand if I get all my money back, plus interest and the gov does not continue to take double payments a month from me. If I must pay in, why would I not use what I'm forced to pay for?  Get a grip.  I can opt out of the program, but I can't opt out of the payments.  Just a start of that free public option.

My opinion, when you quoted me you omitted my smiley :) icon, meant to inform all that I was just jaggin. I realize this was a letter from the deep (or shallow, depending on your metaphor) end.

Kevin:

You folks have to realize that not all people know blog signs.  I don't.  Before PG blog, I was never on one before.  So if you want people to understand what you are implying, perhaps you can actually say so.

My opinion:  I don't know the specifics of Medicare costs/benefits, my point was directed at those who say they don't want any government/public plan.  They are in such a plan, Medicare, and they are not trying to get out of it.  If I'm not mistaken, Medicare is the largest health insurance plan in the US, and there are comparatively  few complaints about it.  Contrast that with any private insurance company.  No one is calling for the privatization of Medicare.

Programs like Medicare and Social Security work because everyone is in them.  They provide a safety net for all of us.  If you have the means and desire for more, you can buy more insurance and retirement benefits.  It is easy to say that you could do better on your own - maybe you could, but there are no sure bets.  Lots of people thought they were in great shape, until the recent financial downturn.

By the way, my contribution to Medicare last year was $400 - that's about what a month's health insurance would cost me.  If I was 70, I doubt that $400 would get me much coverage.    

Born, you are making utterly unfounded assumptions, and they totally undermine your argument.  First & foremost, there is no choice when it comes to the programs you cite.  The courts have determined that you must pay what the government decrees.  The same courts have also determined that the government is not legally compelled to return one red cent of that levy.  Given that there is no "lockbox" for any of the levies collected, this amounts to extortion.  Refuse to pay Vinnie the enforcer, get bones broken.  Refuse to pay Uncle Sugar, get tossed into a cage.  Moral equivalence is a pesky thing, isn't it?

Second, you assume these programs form a "safety net".  On what planet, sir?  We are offered convincing evidence daily that these programs are failing to meet the needs of the people who depend on them.  This has been the case for decades.  If they aren't sustainable now, what will happen as we "boomers" leave the workforce, eh?

We are living this scenario, in part, because the government doesn't want competition.  Do you really think businesses have curtailed retirement benefits "just because"?  It has happened because the laws that regulate business in this country encouraged it.  Now that the private sector has been moved aside, our benevolent Uncle Sugar can step in & save the day with the "public option"!  The only difference is that with the government running the show, you will have NO choice.  And if you have been listening long enough, and closely enough, to those who have been pushing this the longest, you know that is the true objective.

San Fran Nan, Dingy Harry, and the Organizer in Chief do not give a rat's rump about the state of your health, and never have.  If the federal govenment was truly concerned about health, tobacco would have been banned long ago.  The reality?  Cigarettes are still for sale, and NO ONE rakes in more money from their sale than government.  There's your reality, folks: it's all about the Benjamins!  "Healthcare reform" is about vesting more power & authority in the government, period.

And last, but certainly not least, is the matter of the constitutionality, or lack thereof, behind every one of these programs.  We have never had an honest debate of this issue, and never will.  The combination of people who expect more than they contribute & a government that demands ever-increasing amounts of money will likely continue to inhibit such a debate.  Unfortunately, that debate will ultimately come anyway; it will just be more acrimonious & painful than if it were addressed promptly.

Government cannot control its spending, and it is slowly strangling us.  The demographics (average age, birth rate) dictate that raising the ever-increasing financial appetite of the beast will only get harder....