Penguins deal Whitney to Anaheim 2-26-09

I guess Letang is done sitting.

Hope the trade works long term.  Whitney has not been great this year, but I still wonder how much of that is his foot not being completely healed.

Finally, no more Whitney! I may be the happiest PEns fan in the world right now.

Ugh. That's all we got?

I'm not sold on this deal yet, but there are some intriguing aspects to the trade. Kunitz will add some much needed toughness to the top two lines. The prospect is highly regarded, as well.

Here are a few links with info on each player:

Tangradi:

www.hockeysfuture.com/.../eric_tangradi

Kunitz:

www.forecaster.ca/.../player.cgi

Bones i agree...

I hear Kunitz is underrated but he's a worse cap hit and he hasn't scored more than 25 in the NHl...and he's not exactly a kid. I dont understand. Is Tangradi a good prospect??

Good trade, Kunitz can fill a top 6 roll and Tangradi is a solid solid prospect.  I would assume if Whitney had a better season we could've gotten more, but this a good deal for the Pens.  Minard was waived today as well...What else is in the works?

Love the trade. The only bad part is that Kunitz doesn't come cheap either and he hasn't had a great year either(though nowhere as bad as Whitney's). He is supposedly going to cost the pens 3.75M a year until 2012. So the money exchange is a wash.

But then again, I do not know if the Pens had much leverage. Whitney is playing some awful hockey lately. Maybe Whitney can turn it around next year. But there was no chance he was going to help the Pens this year. If the Pens make the playoffs with Kunitz, that's extra revenue they can use. With Kunitz, our forwards depth gets better.

The Pens are instantly a better team today. Letang showed that he is better than Whitney at the current moment. Goligoski can move up and he has played  better than Whitney on the PP.

Anyone has the scoop on Kunitz as a PP player? And what is the word on the prospect?

Kunitz's cap hit is less than Whitney's

Tangradi is a good pick up.  He's second in the OHL in scoring (38 goals, 49assists in 52 games this season)  behind John Tavares (you might have heard of him.)  Power forward - 6'4", 221lbs.

Kunitz could look good with Sid.

Amazing how fast Shero wanted out from under Whitney's contract.

I guess I was right to be suspicious.

I disagree with the move. As much as people had issue with Whitney he has a tremendous upside and I think will be missed. He's just starting to come into his prime. I think we should of gotten more for him although I admit I don't know much about Kunitz beside recognizing the name.

I understand hockey is a business, but I think it was very tacky of the pens to trade Whitney while he is at home dealing with a family situation.

Good Luck Whit!

I guess all of the Whitney bashers can rejoice.  I like the trade but personally I will miss Whitters and his beard.  Oh, not to mention his slick puck moving and passing from the D zone.  The two line pass rule was omitted so players like him could showcase their exceptional, head-up-at-all-times passing to spring a forward on a breakaway.  I believe we received good value in return for him and Tangradi is apparently tearing it up in the OHL.  He's a big guy too, something like 6'3" 200+ lbs.  Ray Shero did two things right here: He got us a top 6 forward and replenished the farm system.  Word.

I like the deal. Carlyle had Kunitz wearing the "A" didn't he. They must think a lot of him on a pretty good team.

Tangradi is interesting. Took big steps forward this year. He scores in the playoffs. PA native so that can get mentioned every game televised by the networks. Now let's learn our lesson and let him develop into the player he's supposed to be rather than shoe horning him into the third line ala Jordan Staal.

Wait...so does this mean Shero duped us all last night with the old "attending to family business" line?

Where are you Basher?  This deal is way better than any of the ones you suggested!

Seth, your salary cap projections are wrong. The salary cap hit per year is fixed based upon the average salary a player will receive over the course of the contract. It doesn't go up and down per season. Which is why Detroit and TB gave Vinny and Henrick those deals with the joke $1M per year at the end of the contract.

Definitely a good trade for the Pens.  Kunitz is a true Top 6 forward and will hopefully mesh with Crosby to give that line more skill.  He's signed for a few more seasons, and could score 30+ goals a season on either of the top 2 lines.  

Tangradi is a young, big kid who has been scoring a lot of goals this season in OHL.  Hopefully, he can replace some of the depth that we gave up when we traded for Hossa.

The bottom line is that The Pens were never going to put Gonchar and Whitney and Letang and Goligoski in the line-up at the same time.  Shero managed to improve the team now and for the future.  Two hooves up!

I like the trade from a personnel standpoint, but wow have we done a great job of killing the locker room chemistry over the past year.  The Penguins lost a good guy today.  They also lost a guy with a very bright future and all the time in the world to get going again.  When Whitney hits 30 years old he should be a better defenseman than anyone else on the roster except maybe Letang.  At least he's out West where it's harder for us to hear about how well he's doing.

So long Ryan, we invested a lot in you, I watched you develop as a player from draft day onward, and I for one hope you have a lot of success.

This is almost addition by subtraction with how badly Whitney has been recently. His +/- is not misleading. He really has been that bad. I was beginning to question whether Whitney had plateaued already in terms of development. He looked to regress. Goligoski is better than him already and can be signed at a fraction of the cost of Whitney.

As far as Kunitz, nice to add some grit to the top lines. Its been a major component missing from this year's team. Also hes signed long term which is always nice.

Tangradi? Amazing that we were able to land him in the deal. Huge upside to go along with his size. Shero must have liked what he saw of him playing in the World Juniors. Nice to finally add to the farm.

All in all, it seems like Shero pulled a fast one on Anaheim's GM. Really wonder if this deal would have been made if Burke was still there. It makes this team better now and in the future. How can anyone not be a fan of this deal if you're a Pens fan?

mckeenshockey.rivals.com/content.asp

Apparently, Tangradi was a Flyers fan until age 16. Terrible trade. Haha.

In all seriousness, this is good, IMO. Gives Ryan a fresh start with some good D-men out there, and we get a solid forward to go along with a prospect that is intriguing. With Tangradi and Caputi, we may have our own Lucic in no time.

Here I am, Goat.  I actually have work to do today, and haven't been able to troll around the chat rooms.  

I suppose this is better than my Whitney for LaRaque straight up proposal.

I think our farm system is going to look a lot nicer with Caputi and Tangardi as future power forwards.  Don't know a whole lot about Kunitz, but it sounds like he might score a few more goals than Kennedy or Dupuis...who by the way, looked good last night playing on the lower lines.  

Salary cap hit does NOT change over the life of the contract.  Year to year salary may change, but not the average, which is the hit.

Can't believe you don't know that.

Also, I thought LeTang looked great last night.  

Did Minard get waived for his inexplicable drop pass to Staal?

@Deadstar

That's a bold statement to say Whitney has plateaued especially with not much evidence to support it.  He had a great Stanley Cup playoffs (+8, best on the team) capped off by his 55 minute Game 5 performance in the Finals.  He didn't even start playing until pretty much January this year and it's not even March.  How else do you think we got the return that we did?  If the guy was a bum we would've got Kunitz only, MAYBE.  

There's nothing wrong with Ryan Whitney that a regular, healthy offseason cannot fix.  

This seems to me as though Pronger or Niedermeyer are likely on the move next for Anaheim.  

I know I've made it clear that I'm not a fan of Whitney's, but seriously, I think he needed a change of scenery. I don't think he was ever going to produce as long as he was in Pittsburgh, unless he never picked up a newspaper, listened to sports-talk radio, or browsed a chat room.  

So, today ought to be Shelley Andersen's last chance to write "congenital foot defect"

it's the end of an era (sigh)

Whitney took a beating from the faithful, deserved or not, I'm sure he's sad at first, but a fresh start might be best thing for him. My pessimistic side asks, who are "we" the faithful gonna complain about next? any news on our "C" & his barking groin?

This trade proves that, like all good GMs, Ray Shero recognizes when he's made a mistake, and takes steps to fix it.

Giving Whitney that contract when he'd only had one above-average season was inexcusable.  Then, finding out (after the fact) that he had a congenital foot problem compounds the problem (doesn't give me a great deal of faith in the Pens medical staff, either, does it?)

I never thought he'd be able to get out from under that albatross, but he found a willing trade partner, and picked up a highly-regarded prospect and a potential scoring winger for Sid who already wears a SC ring and plays with some bite (even though I didn't realize he was so close to 30 years old).  

Gologoski steps right into Whitney's spot in the defense corps, so Shero was dealing from strength and shored up an area where the team was lacking.

Now, if only Shero will learn from this experience and look to unload the other two onerous contracts he gave to chronic underachievers - Jordan Staal and Marc-Andre Fleury.

@ southernBURGH:  Don't worry, Satan and Gill are still around for at least another few days.  Plus we will still have "Marc Andre Rebound."

Feel better about the trade after the drive home. Tangradi sounds like he's got some upside. Can never have too many power forwards in the system.

Even though Kunitz is said to play on the top two lines, I'd say he's no more than a second line player. He'll get lots of time on the Pens' first line, but that doesn't mean he belongs in there. Let's see how this one plays out. On paper, it's terrible: a fifth overall pick who's had solid seasons for a second rounder (that can't help right now) and an undrafted player.

For those who are upset about Whitney leaving, did you watch the Flyers and Capitals games over the weekend?

I did - I was personally there at the Verizon Center when Whitney turned over the puck (the first of several times), took a penalty because the turnover resulted in a scoring opportunity, in which the Capitals ultimately scored on the power play.

The day before, I watched Whitney throw the puck blindly across the ice on the power play as stole it and scored short-handed/.

Meanwhile, you have Letang sitting in the press box. You have Goligoski in Wilkes-Barre. The two d-men that had the power play clicking before Whitney came back. With Whitney, you had no power play, but, if you were the opposing team, you had a great opportunity to pad up those SHG stats.

Additionally, if locker room presence meant so much, where the heck has it been the past three months? That presence really showed up on the road games, didn't it, the past three months. For those who want locker room presence, Kunitz has a Stanley Cup ring. Nuff said about that.

Shero said that Minard was waived because he wore #14 on his sweater, which is the same number Kunitz had in Anaheim.

@ Seth: "Excuses are for losers."  :)

P.S. You know who else is a loser?  The P-G server.  And Alexander Semin.

@ Dan1283

I was a big supporter of Whitney when he played well. He was great in the Cup Finals. But that doesn't erase how terrible he was last year and thus far this year. Injury or not, there's no guarantee he'll be the player he was three years ago. Lets not forget he was a healthy scratch last year (and rightfully so) and probably would have been this year too if we weren't trying to keep his value up.

As far as I am concerned, Sid's line is the second line. So Kunitz will fit in nicely on that line.

The way I see it:

1st line : Fed-Malkin-Sykora

2nd Line: Kunitz-Sid-Whoever

3rd Line: Whoever -Staal-Cooke

4th Line: Whoever is not used on the top 3 lines

DMen: Letang, Gonchar or Goligoski, Gonchar on the PP.

Kunitz will add grit and a more softer touch than Dupuis.  Tangradi will make up for the loss Malone in a year or two.  Britney and his Salary needed to move on.  I have been a lifelong Pens fan and Britney always reminded me of another soft defenseman who made a ton of money: Kevin Hatcher.  We can live with Letang and Go-Go.  This helps with the playoff push.  Remember, we are not nearly the team we were last year.(Malone, Ruutu, Roberts, Hall, Laroque) Sorry I will not mention that TRAITOR from Detroit.

Sounds like a good deal. Whitney has stunk since he's come back. Yeah, he's always had talent and potential but he's never lived up to it with any kind of consistency.

I like the move. Kunitz is a solid pick up and it seems like this prospect might be a good pick up as well.

While I was one of the few that liked Whitney I can also see that they needed the space he was filling to allow Letang to play. Letang has progressed to a point where it's a sin that he was scratched the last few games. He is going to be one of the top offensive dmen in the game soon and he needs to play. I hope that Alex Goligoski will progress similarly. I don't think he's quite there, but he will be soon. I also liked what I saw out of Ben Lovejoy earlier in the season as well. Getting a top 6 forward when we are deep at D was great. I like the return for Whitney.

I thought over the weekend that Letang was scratched so Whitney could be showcased for a trade, especially when I read an article that said that several GMs were inquiring about Letang and Shero said he was untouchable.

Additionally, Pesonen has been called up to the Big Show. It will be interesting to see if he plays now since Therrien is gone along with obsession of having to play two or three minor league scrubs over Pesonen.

Am I bad person?  I keep thinking "Caputi ... Tangradi ... sounds like 'Italian Army' sign time to me.  (Yes, I went there.)

If these acquisitions pan out, great.  And if Ryan Whitney attains a better level of performance, at least he'll be doing it in the West and not in the East.

Please no Todd Bertuzzi.

Coach Taglianetti has a ring to it.

Italian Army and two players with "Tang" in their names. Interesting mix.

Breaking News: Shero is bringing Rico Fata back to Pittsburgh to join the Italian Army.

the more i read about the prospect i'm loving it, & then find out Kunitz likes to hit too,  early signs are we stole this one considering how bad whitney has been playing....

OH, how is kunitz on shootouts?

You put up Kunitz fight videos and leave out his hair-pulling against Brent Burns from 2007?

www.youtube.com/watch

Who cares how he is on shootouts.  LeTang should be taking them anyway.  It's been months since he faked forehand and then went top-shelf backhand.  It worked all year last year, just hasn't quite had the same effect this year.  Maybe the goalies around the league found hockey highlights somewhere and took notes.

Big fan of the trade. The Pens have more defensemen in the minors and juniors than good forwards. Tangradi is the best offensive player in the Pens system as soon as the trade was made. Kunitz is a Malone-type player that fans have been clamoring for but with better hands. He is not afraid to go get the puck along the boards and will be the first one to stick up for his teammates. Whitney is overrated in my book. He has been on the decline for three years. Was it the foot? Perhaps but can this team wait around to find out. The way the game is now played in the NHL, a premium is placed on quick-skating defenseman that can carry the puck. Whitney can not do that and his "great" passing has been tentative the past few years. (He fed Richards really swell last Saturday.) I don't know who would win a race right now between Gill or Whitney but I do know that Letang and Goligoski fit the mold of the modern NHL d-man.  

I don't understand how people think the Pens could have gotten more for Whitney. He is a good defender, but his inconsistency has and will continue to keep him from being great. His stock has taken a drop over this season, and the Pens could not wait a few years for it to rebound. I am not surprised a deal was reached with the Ducks. However, I was thinking Corey Perry would have been the target. Either way, I think the Pens will benefit from Kunitz's grit and toughness. Haven't we all been saying this team has been "soff" all year? Overall, glad the move was made. Best of luck Whitney!

I see we also sent down Pessonen.  Man, that guy must be chomping at the bit to re-sign with us next year.  

Tim Wallace is back.  That man can HIT.  Someone post a YouTube video of him hitting someone.  If I go on YouTube, my work email will block me faster than when I sent Disgruntled Goat on a starlet hunt (again, DG, apologize for that one)

What is the exact cap savings for Kunitz?  He absolutely has to establish himself on Crosby's line to make this trade worthwhile.  This should only be Step 1.  Step 2 is trading Staal now that he is locked up long-term.  We don't need a 3rd line center making $4 million, particularly one who is as overrated as he is and a head case to boot.  Whitney will not be missed, unless you get tired of seeing turnovers in your own end.  I actually would have liked to see us dump Whitney and Staal for some inexpensive toughness and top prospects and use the cap savings to make another run at Hossa in the offseason, assuming he could forget the treatment he took here earlier.  

One more thing.  Whenever we talk about Ben Lovejoy from now on, can we please refer to him simply as "Reverend"

This is a great trade for both clubs.

Kunitz was expendable due to the kids in Anaheim (ebbet/ryan) and Whitney is available with Letang and Goligoski in the wings.

www.bucketofpucks.com/.../penguins-trade-ryan-whitney-to-anaheim-for-chris-kunitz-prospect.html

Plus,the Pens get a decent prospect and the cap hit is practically a wash.

(4M vs. 3.725M)

To Ray Shero...

thank you!

Whitney is in the lineup tonight vs. Boston ... suprisingly, he hasn't committed any turnovers yet.  He's paired with Pronger.  

the deal speaks to the value of Letang and Goligoski--let's get them extended.  Tangradi is v.good add.  Kunitz is not quite what I would have hoped for from a trading partner that bit on the "Ryan Whitney is the PP QB acquisition that will take us places" line, but given that we got Tancradi and we will be able to plug in Letang (and then GoGo in Letang's spot), I like it.

move over pascal dupuis and colby armstrong. there is a NEW 3rd liner being forced onto the top line to be a "goal scorer" when he is little more than a crasher and banger. god, i officially hate ray shero now. shero screws the pooch. yet AGAIN. this is the best he could get for whitney?!?!? jesus christ bring back craig patrick. he had more than his share of turd trades. this might surpass the jagr giveaway...err..."trade" for the most inept trade in franchise history. spare me the naslund trade. when he was a penguin he was CRAP. his best play as a penguin was passing the puck to mario lemieux when mario scored from between his legs, behind his back. in an offseason full of blatant incompetance, firing a coach with a $3 million contract they still have to pay, and giving away the best trade value he had for a spare part 3rd liner in kunitz and a prospect that is questionable at best, i am hoping the pens miss the playoffs so shero is sent f#cking packing. this guy is beyond terrible.

Bruins are up 3-0 and the game is getting feisty.  Parros-Thornton and then Lucic-M.Brown.  Now S.Niedermayer and Marc Savard just dropped the gloves.  My guess is Whitney is shaking in his boots right about now.  This isn't his cup of tea.   He'd much rather play a few PPs and then quietly get out of dodge.

megawheel:

he plays a gritty power forward style, but he also has a scoring touch.  what's wrong with putting a guy like that on the second line again?  have you even seen him play?

and as fas as tangradi being "questionable at best", aren't all prospects quesiontable?  isn't that the whole meaning of prospect?  he's a young, big,  kid who is riping up the ohl right now, so i would say he's a little more that "questionable at best". thank god you're not the gm...

4-0 ... Whitney just got schooled on the PK ... seems like old times.  

thank you, Ray Shero ...

addition by subtraction ...

@aandrew ...

I couldn't agree more.  We're so use to soft forwards that sight unseen, Kunitz doesn't impress anyone.  He does the little things that are needed at the NHL level (goes to the net, whacks goalies, gives face washes, fights, hits, scores, backchecks,etc.)  Things that don't necessarily make the scoresheet but are extremely important in winning games.

I'm not calling him a savior, but he'll become a fan-favorite in short order.  We like Cooke, we like Talbot, We liked Ruutu, we'll like Kunitz.  He's all of those guys with better offensive ability.

Mark it down now, you heard it here

@aandreww: yes, i have watched him? have you? he does play hard. so does dupuis. he does have grit. so does matt cooke. NONE of the three are anything CLOSE to a "goal scoring winger", which is what he will be counted on to be. and guess what? IT WON'T WORK BECAUSE HE IS NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT A GOAL SCORING WINGER!!!!!!!!!! and to answer your question, THAT is what is wrong with putting him on the top line. if it was as matt cooke was used, with geno being the GOAL SCORER, then fine. that is the way the ducks used him with getzlaf and perry and with mcdonald and selanne. he was NOT the primary goal scorer as he will be counted on with sid and most likely dupuis, another guy they continually mis-use. trading away what was your best trading asset for a 3rd liner and questionable (read shero's own evaluation of him being "raw" and scouting reports from that draft where he went in the 2nd round) prospect, neither shero or myself should be the gm.

I think the trade is pretty fair, Kunitz is not the goal scoring savior the Pens need but he will help a lot.  I think playing alongside Crosby he can score 30 because he'll go to the net and Sid will def. get the puck there.  That said, Kunitz is NOT a "top 6 forward" he's just a solid player with good hockey sense.  I like the trade because with how bad Whits had been playing recently getting anything of value for him was a good trade.  Anyone see the Ducks/Bruins game, Whitney got taken to school on a Boston PP, I wonder if Anaheim regrets the trade already.  I look at Kunitz like a less talented version of Kevin Stevens, a guy whose got decent size, good hands, grinds it out, and will greatly benefit from playing with an elite player like Sid.  

I'll keep going back to this statement ...

addition by subtraction.

end of story.

getting rid of dead weight was the key.  Ryan Whitney is overrated and overpaid.  getting a broken stick and a couple of rolls of tapes for him would have made this a win for the Penguins.

The supposed offensive defenseman that the Penguins traded averages less than 1.5 shots per game.  He averages 25 minutes a game with most of it while sharing ice with the top 2 scorers in the league.  It's almost mathematically impossible to have the pitiful offensive numbers he has this year.  He was below average last year.  He was only decent the year before.  How long do you wait before potential equals production.  If it wasn't going to happen for him in Pittsburgh, he had to moved.  Especially when they have the same types of players who are cheaper and younger, and who already produce more than he does.  

at last check, the Ducks were losing 5-0 to Boston tonight.  The "offensive juggernaut" had played over 20 minutes, was (-1) and had ALL OF 1 SHOT ON GOAL.  laughable.  

Anything Ray Shero would have gotten for him was a plus.  To think they were going to get an All-Star for him is ludicrous.  GMs talk to their scouts, they know Whitney is having an awful season.  Getting Kunitz and Tangradi is a winner in my book.

@fantasyman: yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. where to begin? 1st, if kunitz EVER scores 30 goals as a penguin, i will eat your hat. i say that of course because it will NEVER happen. 2nd, well, let's see. whitney goes home to where his mother had a brain operation, gets traded, goes to a new team with, presumably, a new system he is not used to yet, with teammates he is also not used to yet, and has ONE bad play? the NERVE of him. he should be shot out in the middle of the street like a dog. 3rd, kevin stevens?????????? please don't INSULT the big artie express. kunitz is a POORMAN'S ryan malone. and that is saying something. 4th, the only thing correct you said was that kunitz was not a top 6 forward.

@megawheel

you're a big talker there bro, we'll see how it pans out.  guess none of us will know for a week or two.  lets see him in some games before we tear him apart.  it does make me laugh that you stick up for whitney and his awful play but take all of 30 seconds before you start ripping kunitz.  he scored 25 goals playing with corey perry and ryan getzlaf, not exactly offenseive juggernauts in my book.  Croz is easily better then both of those guys.  next, I never said he WAS kevin stevens, I said his style of play reminded me of kevin stevens, lets not go mixing words.  look, im with you that most pens fans will be majorly dissapointed because people seem to think he's the next coming of marion hossa but the guy aint chopped liver either.  im not trying to disrespect whitney either, he was a vital piece to our run last year but with gogo and letang playing so well and whitney being so god awful and his salary, something had to give.  just as i write this....the subway nightly sports call came on and bob pompeani just said "kunitz is a top 6 type of forward" ugh...do our sportscasters know ANYTHING about sports besides football?

In their respective remaining games, what choice will provide the highest number ...

a) Ryan Whitney shots on goal

b) Chris Kunitz hits

c) Ryan Whitney giveaways

d) Chris Kunitz facewashes

e) Ryan Whitney hits

f) Chris Kunitz goals

Seth,

 You posted that the people who booed Whitney when announced he was scratched were "classless" or something.  I was one of them.  I booed his recent play....however... I now (and did then) believe that it was a lie that he went home....or partially.  Now that  I see he met his new team in Boston, I believe that even more.  Sorry.. but at the present time.. he deserved the booing.  Previously, like in last year's playoff's...NO..  Come on, he was a -15 in 24 game or so.. If the foot wasn't ready... stay off it .

@fantasyman: i wasn't insulting you. i have seen kunitz play. and the 25 goals was with macdonald and selanne, not with his current linesmates. with them, he has 16. my problem is that shero brought kunitz in to be a "goal scorer" when he is not, hasn't been, or ever will be. he is actually a lesser player than ryan malone. and whitney, for all the complaints and poor play this season (well, 28 games of it) should have got shero something FAR better than this inept, terrible, idiotic trade. that has me upset, not specifically your post.

@malkinluver: stay off it? wasn't everyone, including the braindead "fans" bashing whitney, BEGGING for his return to try and salvage the season that was slipping away even then?

@megawheel

im with you, kunitz isn't exactly what I had in mind for whitney but he hits and can scorea a few goals here and there, soemthing this team needs badly.  he def. isnt a goal scoring winger, top 6 forward, whatever you want to call it.  okay, so he has 16 now, it's possible he gets to 25 by the end of the season here, we'll see.  the thing that really bothers me is that he only makes like .5 mil less than whitney so we didn't really free up any cap spcae to bring in a REAL top 6 forward in the offseason.  i agree that whitney isnt as bad as what his 28 games have shown but with letang and gogo someone had to go and whitney's 4 mil per is a pretty good indicator of why he got the ax.  we'll know after a couple games if kunitz is going to be a good fit here, until then, i think we should save the bashing til we see him play.  by the way, any word if Crosby is going to play tomorrow night?  

megawheel, you've said you have seen him play many times, do you or did you live in soCal?  i'm from out in that area, moved here many years ago, with to HS will bill thomas as a matter of fact!  just curious

Was this the trade that brought in the "goal-scorer"? Probably not. I like the addition by subtraction thought but I look at is would you rather have $4 mil up in the press box or a LW that has a history of scoring goals when he is on a talented line. Whitney's value is low (-15) so you weren't going to get Gaborik for him but how much more were you going to actually get? The Pens got an experienced forward and a prospect who is now their most talented player not in Pittsburgh. I'll take it for a guy who looks a step slow and is tentative on his decision making.

@fantasyman: no. i have center ice and watch quite a bit of it at night. i dvr'd the craps game and the boston one. i'll watch them shortly. as for kunitz, he is a good, hardnosed player. again, my sole problem is using your best trading asset NOT on a goal scorer, but on a glorified grinder. now you expect that same guy to be a goal scorer. look how well it worked for pascal dupuis. can he do ANYTHING besides blast a slap shot from the left-side hashmarks as soon as crosses the blueline? admittedly, kunitz camps out in the crease and bangs in garbage goals, but is that worthy of your top asset less than a week before the deadline? to me, not even close. as for the salary, that is why anaheim was looking to dump him. their entire blueline with the exception of pronger are going to be unrestricted at seasons end. and there are rumors of the cap being lowered because of the economy. so $3.75 cap hit for a 20 goal guy? didn't he refuse to re-sign ryan malone because he thought was too much? again, shero is beyond inept.

To finish my thought on Whitney's value: He probably would have brought in more around the draft but the pressure is to get to the playoffs this year.

which is shero's own doing. he didn't even negotiate with malone, from malone's own mouth before his first game here, nor with roberts. he refused to sign ruutu (though cooke is a major upgrade, i'll shero credit there.) or laraque or adam hall (all tough to play against) because he refused to sign them to 3 yr deals instead of 2 yrs. he put ALL of his eggs in the "hossa wants to stay here, his agent told me so" basket and got entirely burned by it. he had NO back-up plan, again, from being certain he had hossa in hand, and scraped the bottom on the leftover list at winger and brought in satan as his #1 winger and feds to replace malone (which, in reality, he has came pretty dang close after a horrid start and being relegated to 3rd line duty for awhile). he waits until talbot is in the midst of a terrible year when it looks like he doesn't even care, and signs him for 2 more years. he signed eaton to a multi-million dollar contract right off the bat at the beginning of free agencey. why???? what had eaton done to merit it? there was suddenly going to be a run on an injury prone #7 defenseman? he fires therrien when he did. costing the owners $2million for his mistake. if you were going to do it, do it earlier or in the post season. you know, when it would have made a difference or been more appropriate. he continues to bring in 3rd liners and expects them to be goal scorers for sid. at least now when dupuis fires his nightly slapshots from the left hashmarks on the rush, maybe kunitz can bang them. rocket richard look out!

@megawheel

good call on the center ice, I had it last year and stayed up all night watching west coast hockey games.  i'm not a huge fan of the trade because like you saidm they are bringing in a player for a role he isn't capable of playing.  I also feel bad for kunitz already because the media around here is touting him as the savior so he's going to have enormous pressure to produce right away.  i agree 100% with your thoughts on dupuis, he can't do much besides shoot and he looks overmatched on that top line.  if the pens are going to keep staal in the long term plans I'd like to see them bump him up the the second line center and let sid and malkin play together.  i know this would never happen and im sure i'll get flamed for this but i would put some line combos together like this:

1.  crosby/malkin/sykora

2.  staal/fedotenko/kunitz

3.  talbot/kennedy/dupuis

4.  cooke/godard/thomas

put satan's ass on the bench, HCDB needs to make it clear if you dont play hard every shift, you sit

center ice is great. expensive as heck, but worth it. kunitz and staal will end up the next whippingboys. staal already is. agreed that staal needs moved up, i'd just prefer if they went back to using him on the wing. he's wasted anywhere else, unless you do as you suggest, and turn geno into sid's permanent winger. but then quite a bit of geno's talents are wasted there. as good as him and sid are together and as fun as it is to watch, geno belongs at center. i entirely blame shero for his handling of the roster since he's been here. the man has been awful this past season. and giving away dominic moore for a low draft pick was stupid as well. moore was good while here, and has only gotten better for the maple laughs. that was another bad shero move to add to the list.

no doubt there have been plenty of bad moves by shero, i still think it's too early to evaluate this trade.  i'd really like to see a last minute deadline deal with staal to a desperate team but i dont have much confidence that shero will make it a worthwhile trade.  i dont think the pens are going to make the playoffs this year anyway, the only way it happens is if the rangers suck so bad they actually fall all the way out of the playoffs...doesn't look too far fetched anymore.  the way the pens have been playing is a joke, you need a shutout from fleury and a last minute goal by sykora to beat the WORST team in the league...ugh.  this upcoming road trip decides the season...i have a feeling they are going to get SPANKED tomorrow by chicago.  

me too. unfortunately. i remember wanting toews so bad that draft instead of staal. do you get the extra espns? they show a lot of college hockey on them. i saw 3 or 4 of toews games that year and he looked great, and was actually playing wing at the time. how much different would it be if shero had chosen him instead of staal. i remember getting flamed hard for saying that staal didn't deserve the calder nomination over kopitar. that was a travesty. i also said he didn't deserve being ahead of wolski or carle either. though the sharks traded carle to philly for pitkannen, so either the sharks saw something i didn't or i over-valued him. but the point was, even when geno turned him into a 29 goal scorer, he was not a good offensive player even then. all you had to do was watch him carry the puck into the zone, compared to malkin. he's improved since then and is STILL not what i'd call a playmaker. which is why i hope he goes back to wing. he CAN finish what someone else creates. he just is not good at creating on his own, other than as a grinding game. which is why he works so good with kennedy and cooke. but $4 million for a grinder/penalty killer? hardly. as for tonight's game, i wish kunitz well. i would love it if shero is right and he is a goal scorer in hiding.

yeah, I get that ESPN channel, ive seen many college games as well.  Toews looked awesome, too bad we didn't get him.  I like staal (more like "stall" if you get the pun) and have nothing against him but i feel like he has more value in a trade than he does on this team...if we find the right return pieces and dont just pull the trigger on the first offer.  his 29 goals were definitely an abberation but he should be better than what he is now, especially making that type of money.  although his contract isnt his fault, that's shero wasting more of the teams limited cap space.  speaking of kopitar, how bad would you like to have him now?  i heard via internet rumors the kings werent actively shopping him but they were willing to listen to offers.  shero should have talked to the kings to find out what it would take to pry him away.  there are so many REAL scorning wingers out there that could be had for the right deal, some of the names ive heard" Ales Hemskey, Erik Cole, Nik Antrapov, Olli Jokkinen, Martan St. Louis, and a left wing from the Senators whose name is escaping me right now.  these are the guys we should be looking into, of course length of deals and cap space are going to be the problem.  I hope kunitz does well tomorrow, lets just not write him off before he even laces up the skates.  The pens have some major issues to face this offseason, first and foremost signging sykora, i hope they can do it but i just have a bad feeling.  he's going to command a lot of money on the open market, he's gonna be a 30-30 guy this year and there are a lot of players ala Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, Daneil Briere, Mats Sundin, etc. that make many many millions for far less production.  

yeah, I get that ESPN channel, ive seen many college games as well.  Toews looked awesome, too bad we didn't get him.  I like staal (more like "stall" if you get the pun) and have nothing against him but i feel like he has more value in a trade than he does on this team...if we find the right return pieces and dont just pull the trigger on the first offer.  his 29 goals were definitely an abberation but he should be better than what he is now, especially making that type of money.  although his contract isnt his fault, that's shero wasting more of the teams limited cap space.  speaking of kopitar, how bad would you like to have him now?  i heard via internet rumors the kings werent actively shopping him but they were willing to listen to offers.  shero should have talked to the kings to find out what it would take to pry him away.  there are so many REAL scorning wingers out there that could be had for the right deal, some of the names ive heard" Ales Hemskey, Erik Cole, Nik Antrapov, Olli Jokkinen, Martan St. Louis, and a left wing from the Senators whose name is escaping me right now.  these are the guys we should be looking into, of course length of deals and cap space are going to be the problem.  I hope kunitz does well tomorrow, lets just not write him off before he even laces up the skates.  The pens have some major issues to face this offseason, first and foremost signging sykora, i hope they can do it but i just have a bad feeling.  he's going to command a lot of money on the open market, he's gonna be a 30-30 guy this year and there are a lot of players ala Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, Daneil Briere, Mats Sundin, etc. that make many many millions for far less production.  

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