Pirates losing not a managerial thing

Letters: Open Pirates books

Bob Smizik's Blog — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:25:35 GMT

Saturday, 1 a.m. Q: The money vs. winning debate is not resolvable, but it can be put on a more informed

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

Jmat — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:41:51 GMT

I couldn't agree with you more Bob.

I'm not a John Russell fan but after 16 going on 17 losing seasons you figure out that it's not the Managers fault as much as it's the players he's given to work with.

It's lousy ownership, general managing and scouting that's destroyed a once proud franchise.

The Pirates are nothing more than a Triple A team for the rest of the Major Leagues.

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

DaveinCape — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:22:37 GMT

It's definitely true, the Pirates losing is not a managerial thing right now. They've lost for years and everybody knows they need more talent. But I still am not sold on Russell.

I think you have to be careful not to stick with this manager too long just for the sake of being different or trying to show stability .

Because they haven't won in 17 years and had to go through some other managers, does that mean John Russell is the right guy and can get the job done?

Everybody needs to be evaluated and accountable. This current general management has to project in all aspects. That includes the players they've acquired who they hope can provide a better nucleus of talent and that includes the manager being a good leader and getting the most out of the team when it comes time to place some legitimate expectations on them.

Talent alone won't get it done. Not in this situation. It's going to take more than talent.

Even if the Pirates have better talent than they've had, almost every other team will be equal to or better. They have to play the game well and the manager has to make a difference in understanding the strategies and "pushing the right buttons" at times. And they need to build some serious mental toughness and resiliency to bounce back after some rough stretches.

I don't see Russell making even the slightest bit of difference. He's just not that way. Not enough experience at the big league level and severely lacking in leadership.

If Huntington is satisfied with what he sees and sticks with him, I hope I'm wrong. From what I've seen so far, I think they should see if they can find better.

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

Tom (The Bomb) Tracy — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:52:34 GMT

Oh yes Russell is part of the problem. He's the manager! He's the one that should demand accountability of his players. Instead, he's an excuse-maker that faciliates their mistakes. Isn't it time for the Charmin-soft Pittsburgh media to put some heat on these guys? I mean, this has been going on for 17 years now, right?

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

PaulH — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:43:43 GMT

You're right Bob. Russell is a so-so manager with the Pirates due to lack of talent on the team. I agree with his constant tinkering of the lineup, necessitated by the trades and lack of player consistency. The guy has to find out of some of these people can really play? (Moss, Andy LaRoche, etc.)

Hey, Russell might be a great manager on the Yankees? Remember, Joe Torre wasn't all that great until he landed with the Yankees and now the Dodgers, two teams loaded with talent. Made him look good!

Ditto Terry Francona, banned in Philly but loved in Beantown.

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

coachrv30 — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:14:48 GMT

Bob, while I agree with your premise that even the best manager or managers have not or will not make the Pirates a winning team because of its lack of talent, I do disagree that a manager such as Jim Tracy, who now is experiencing some success with the Rockies, could not have helped the Pirates be a better team than their final record indicated. I express this as one not claiming to be a baseball expert, but one who taught and coached kids for over 30 years and who has been a Pirate fan for since 1955. I also realize that much of what I believe is after the fact and cannot be substantiated fully. I have observed a number of things that well could have helped the Pirates be a more successful team than the records indicate.

To begin, how often during Tracy's tenure were the Pirates well in control of a game because of a solid outing by a starting pitcher only to have him removed from the game because of Tracy's insistence on the 100 pitch limit, only to squander the lead by ineffective bullpen pitching. How often I felt he overmanaged by trying to fix - so to speak - something that wasn't broken. Likewise, how often when the Pirates did manage to win, Tracy took credit for the outcome rather than the players who actually achieved it. How often did he attempt to remake the Pirates into the teams he had in L.A.

with players who did not fit that type of team to begin with? How often did he misevaluate the strength of players he already had, Freddie Sanchez and Nate McClouth to name just several? In his eyes Freddie was not worthy of being a starting third baseman or Nate McClouth a center fielder. Likewise, and probably the most annoying and/or frustrating aspect of his Pirates management skills was his constant sitting in the dugout looking at the floor as if there were no game being played at the moment - not one iota of excitement or motivation on his part. This makes me wonder how much of the current Rockies success can be possibly attributed to his astute management. Only time will tell that.

As a person and professional example, I applaud him and wish him well, but I can't help but conclude that the Pirates could have, would have, should have been a team more competitive than the records indicate. Would they have been a championship team, I doubt it, but they well could have achieved a more positive record.

Just where JR will rank during these years of Pittsburgh down-years remains to be seen, but it appears that the Bucs could use more motivation than has been exhibited thus far. While John is very patient and supportive of his players, I can't help but think there is a time to surprise them with an explosive approach and help motivate them to expectations that go beyond their present comfort zones. Yes, managers can only do so much, with the bulk of the success or failure determined by the players. But some of a manager's most successful achievements occur with teams less talented, but who achieve more than the players or the fans expect. It is with these beliefs that I will always continue to support the Pirates through years of thin and thinner, for I can't help but feel the empathy for the players who are striving to shake these years of frustration and help restore pride to the people of Pittsburgh and all their fans everywhere. This year, especially, seems to be a state of flux, with neither players nor fans exactly sure which direction this team is headed. Through it all, though, let's keep on keeping on so that once again we can truly raise the Jolly Roger. Bob, keep up with your thoughtful comments and observations. Even if one might disagree with them at times, they do make the reader stop and think. Thanks again.

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

darylethepiratefan — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:23:51 GMT

John Russell brings nothing to this team but a lineup card, how dare you write a columm about his comments and then say he is adequate, I dont know if you watch every game like I do. The Bucs have blown many of game due to his neglience, I mean I remember times when NYJER OR AMAC was on first and we were down one run and JR wouldnt have the guts to steal either one of those FERRARI'S , a coach isnt always the product of his talent, I compare RUSSELL to my 2 favorite BASEBALL COACHES of all time, JIMMY LEYLAND AND CHUCK TANNER, those guys had a special gift to have the pulse of the team and the UNCANNY ABILITY to light a fire when needed, JR NOT HIS FAULT, is who he is, he has no fire and that is another dimension he fails at....Lastly what happened SATURDAY NIGHT in the city of brotherly love was TRAGIC, JR sat there , almost afraid to pull CAPPS when HELEN KELLER could see he didnt have anything, Then he had the audacity to warm someone up , FOR WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU NEED TO WARM SOMEONE UP THEN YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER, GO TO THE MOUND AND GET HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, JR Is not a leader of men, you and I both know it but you just CONTRADICT YOURSELF so much you dont know what you really feel, I can read and you like myself know this guy is not right for the team ,...To read his comments make me think not only can he not coach but he is STUPID, How in the hell do you say the lineup in June was better than the one with NADY, BAY ETC, Just dumb,..Then he said he isnt dissapointed about the first half, well my goodness Bob , what would make him dissapointed, If the team didnt catch the bus and show up on gameday....I have no confidence in him and I know I am not alone...You know the truth but you had nothing else to write about.....BOB, I Love your work but take a stance and quit back peddaling on topics...

I thought I was finished but to see the team a season high 12 games back and he again say he is not DISSAPOINTED is so LUDACRIS that he should loose his job on that alone....He doesnt say much but when he does he sounds like a FOOL ...

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

WhatThePuck — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:13:53 GMT

'Burgher in California that was a funny post!!! I want LLOYD MCCLENDON Back!!! I love watching people flip the hell out. He would be dead by now if he was still coaching the Pirates

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

WhatThePuck — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:05:09 GMT

I agree the Pirates losing ways has little to do with the manager. So why do we even have a manager. If we are going to cut costs why dont we start there. Instead of bobblehead night, why dont the Pirates draw a winning ticket from someone in the stands the game before the series starts. Who wouldnt want an all expense trip to the West Coast for ten days and have the best seat in the house. It would make me attend more games with the hope of managing the pirates.

The same goes for the base coaches, why pay them anything when again you can raffle off those positions for nothing. This is the big leagues, you would think these players would know how to run the basepaths. I could tell them to stop or go when they are rounding third. I can learn to grab my nuts, pinch my nose, and get the hell out of the way from a foul ball

The pitching coach is the only coach I will leave alone. I think our coach has done an admirable job. He has the ability to teach how to pitch correctly and keep the score low. You sure do need that with the offense we got!!! hahahah

Finally the GM position. What fantasy league player wouldnt want the opportunity to make trades and sign players to contracts. Its a dream job so this raffle would only go to someone who buys season tickets

I am sure everyone is doing the best job they can but most of the time you just cannot polish crap

re: Pirates losing not a managerial thing

kevin morris — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:12:45 GMT

I don't think Russell is the reason the team stinks, but I don't think the fact that the team stinks means Russell is above criticism. It didn't make the Pirates a contender when they demoted Snell, but it was a move that needed to be done. If Russell isn't doing a good job putting this team in a position to win, strategically, motivationally, or any other-ally, he should be held accountable just as if this team was a contender. If replacing him would make the team better he should be replaced.

By the way, I don't get to see enough games to have a valid opinion on whether or not he is doing a good job.