Pitt should beat overrated Irish

Because there is no playoff, the regular season in college football is supposed to mean more than in other sports.  Lately though, the college regular season seems to be a sham because teams need to pile up the wins so their non-conference schedules are not challenging.   As a result, here we are going into the 10th game of the season and its only NOW that we are going to find out how good Pitt really is...maybe.  Pitt is playing well, but honestly, they could win their last 3 games or lose their last 3 games and I wouldn't be surprised either way.

As for the Pitt/ND game, you have to wonder if the bright lights of national TV against fabled ND will affect the Panther players.  I smell trouble.

Random thought:  Bob, you might be right, maybe ND isn't very good.  But then why isn't Penn State playing them?  haha

Gotta start every day fresh with a jab-uppercut combo to Nits wits everywhere.

Kiding aside, this is the kind of game that Pitt sometimes trips over, just when things are going really good, to derail a great season and break our hearts.  Most recently I'm reminded of the dumpster fire that Rutgers lit up on us last year.  

Every fiber of my being hopes that 2009 will be different.  Either way, should be fun entertainment.  The last two Pitt-ND games were among the most exciting college games I've ever seen.

If all these teams have accumulated decent records but haven't been tested one may wonder if there are sufficient teams available that qualify as quality opponents.

Or should everyone have tried to schedule Florida, Texas and Alabama this year?

I agree with you Bob.  Pitt is ranked as high as #8 in one poll.  I don't how people can say that the Big East is disrespected.  They haven't beaten anybody and they lost to lowly NC State.  BTW, I am a Pitt fan.  On the other hand, Penn State hasn't beaten anybody either and if they win the rest of their games, they will probably get a New Years day bowl.  How sad is that.

I think Pitt has an inferiority complex when it comes to Penn State and Notre Dame. Why is that? Paterno doesn't need Pitt on his schedule. Why would he? They draw very little fans and PSU sell 110,000 tickets. Do the math. As for ND, at least they come here and play. Sure half the stadium will be there to see ND but at least it's sold out for a change. College football has become a joke, everyone has their hand out. Don't be mad at Penn State, hate the system. College football will get my attention when FBS schools play each other again instead of the Youngstown States

"sonnydrysdale" missed the point about a Pitt-Penn State game.  It's not about filling seats; it's about a historic rivalry. During the Dorsett through the Marino years, ND was a big game on the schedule, but WVU and Penn State is what excited me. There is no game because Paterno doesn't want one.  I remember Joe saying he couldn't fit Pitt into the schedule because the commitment to the Big Ten.  Well, this year PSU played Akron (the worst team in the MAC and maybe one of the worst D1 teams), Syracuse, Temple, and Eastern Illinois.  If Paterno wants to compete for a national championship, he needs to upgrade his schedule.  The Big Ten looks more and more like bottom feeders, and playing Pitt will provide quality points and a test for his team.

Any time politicians get involved most outcomes are poor.  Here's an exception.  The legislators should tag a Pitt-Penn State game to the next disbursement of state monies to the 2 schools.  That is, after they stop the bickering and work to get the economy back on track and folks working.

Solid writeup, Bob.

I'd certianly agree with your assertion that, right now, "Pitt has a better team..."    I would not agree, however, with the end of that statement, where ya said, ".... and a better coach. The Panthers should win by a comfortable margin."    

Wannstedt hasn't exactly been Pete Carroll or Barry Switzer at Pitt.    As you yourself noted, he's beaten some softee teams this year.   He's prone to tightening up and going ultra-vanilla as the game gets bigger.   Let's see what he does vs. Notre Dame.  I very highly doubt it'll be by a comfortable margin.  

Bob, I think you could write a piece about Curtis Aiken's new gig announcing basketball games and within 5 responses it would morph into a Pitt-Penn St. smack-down.

By the way, I had a summer session class with Curtis and about 10 other Pitt basketball and football players (not that they were directed to a soft pitch class). It was a 21/2 hour class with a break in the middle; Curtis is the only one of the athletes who ever came back from the break, and he did it every day.

I wonder what the other 10 guys are doing.

Bob,  you omitted two important points:

1) Notre Dame did not punt at all vs Navy ... they just kept shooting themselves in the foot instead

2) as PSU found out last week, you can never underestimate a team loaded with talent ... even if they rarely optimize it

Mike Gundy aka Imma_Man

I know you were only getting a jab in at PSU for their schedule, but fair is fair here and Pitt hasn't beaten a team ranked in the Top 25 as of yet this year.

That being said, I as an objective PSU fan, see no reason that Pitt should lose this game this weekend. I forsee a shootout.

Although I wonder, if Pitt should happen to lose to this "wildly overrated" team, does that make Pitt "doubly wildly overrated"?

If you can't beat them, join them.

Whether or not Pitt beats them, Notre Dame ain't what it used to be.  Charlie Weis's record as a head coach is virtually the same as the two guys--Willingham and Davie--that were fired before he took over.

So here's my suggestion:  Notre Dame should join the Big East.  

Let them have their traditional games against USC and Michigan and Navy.  Let them keep their TV network--good exposure for the Big East.  Playing Pitt, WVU, Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn will be an upgrade over teams they play now, like Nevada, Washington State, etc.  And, adding Notre Dame would be an upgrade in prestige, if nothing else, for the Big East.

(If Notre Dame joins a conference, it almost certainly will join the Big Ten. -- Bob Smizik)

Peabody,

The funny thing is, or maybe the sad thing, that Weis' best years were when he had Willingham's players.

Also, $$ talks, I don't forsee any scenario why ND would give up the sweet solo deal they have with NBC Sports to join the Big East. That also goes for them not joining the Big Ten.

Hi Bob,

 I agree: So long as Pitt plays like they can and did against S. Florida -- a mistake free game with a balance offensive attack.  While Notre Dame does have big game talent and someoffensive power returning from injuries, Pitt has even more weapons on offense (Lewis, Dickerson, Baldwin, McGee, Turner, Byham AND don't forget Stull), and they are finally using them, effectively, thanks to a new offensive coordinator.  I think we'll see some new wrinkles in the offense this week to take advantage of Notre Dame's weakness against the run.  PItt's defensive secondary seems to have learned from earlier mistakes, and I like the way Elijah Fields is being used.  Special teams are playing well, now that everyone is healthy.  Pitt has worked to improve itself over the course of the year and that includes Coach Wannestedt.  He and his staff have created a well orchestrated effort and they deserve much credit.  Charlie Weis is overrated, as his performance has demonstrated since he was handed the job at Notre Dame.  Here's to a great game Saturday night.  Can't wait. By the way, I enjoy your blog very much.  Hope all is well.

Pitt's athletic leadership believes apparently that it should follow the same path as its BCS peers with respect to scheduling a number of soft out of conference opponents. I don’t like it but that is apparently how it is. But if they are going to schedule in that manner I suggest that they can leverage those games to obtain better exposure that hopefully would benefit recruiting. For example, why not schedule Villanova instead of Youngstown State to reinforce Pitt’s name recognition Eastern PA?   Delaware would work too. And if you want to get really creative, find a D 1-AA opponent in California like U.C. Davis, in Louisiana with Grambling and in Texas with a school like Texas Sate near San Antonio or Sam Houston State near Houston. Rice in Houston is D1-A possibility.  I also suggest substituting Sun Belt Conference opponents like North Texas in Dallas and Florida International and Florida Atlantic in South Florida for MAC opponents. Pitt’s name is known pretty well in the Midwest already. Texas, Florida and California are recruiting lodes.  So why not play schools in those areas more often?

(Actually, Howard, Pitt plays one of the more representative non-conference schedules with Notre Dame, North Carolina State and Navy among the five team they play.  If it continues that kind of scheduling, it will be well ahead of the curve.  -- Bob Smizik)

How does one increase name recognition in a region by scheduling a 1-AA college team that has a following of 300 or so?

Bob, saying "who lost to Temple" isn't quite the insult it once was. The Owls are 7-2, have won seven in a row and are going bowling for the first time since Wayne Hardin.

(Golden shouid be coach of the year unanimously in every one of those awards.  -- Bob Smizik)

Going to a 12th game has really increased the percentage of games  schools play against sub-par opposition. Most big schools picked up a rent-a-victim from the bottom of a lesser conference or even a 1-AA.

HowardinLafayette,   Pitt's out-of-conference schedule next year inlcudes a home game with Miami (FL) and away games with Utah and Notre Dame.  When you play these teams, you play on their fields also, thus, you need to play the lower D1 and 1-AA teams to fill out your schedule to play an adequate amount of home games (note that last year, Pitt played 6 home and 6 away games.)  Plus, the BE needs 5 OOC games while teams in other conferences need just 3 or 4.

Note that Navy's star QB, Ricky Dodds, did not play for most of the Temple loss.  Nonetheless, Temple,which began with a loss to 1-AA Villanova, really has gotten it together and deserves acclaim.

"Rent-a-victim"...hahaha - I like that.  I made the mistake of exiling myself to Saint Francis for a few years and I remember during the week they'd have to play Towson, half the starters would be "injured".  So unfortunately I guess these scheduling practices happen at all levels of college football.  What a sham.

On the other side of this, for teams like Boise State, it becomes more difficult to schedule top BCS programs who don't want to be embarrassed on national TV by a "lesser" program.  If those schools are smart, they'll start calling out those that turn them down for games.

Great blog as always, Bob.  I agree that we should win this weekend, though I'm a bit nervous about the potentially dangerous talent on Notre Dame's offense.  Their defense stinks, so we should score a lot.  I've tempered my excitement a bit due to our recent history in these situations, but I can't help feeling different about how solid this team is.  Bill King made the comment this morning on Rivals Radio that though there were some hyped teams and good potential during the Walt Harris era, he never got the sense that Pitt was in position to break onto the big stage.  He believes they are this year.

I disagree with a lot of people in that I believe Wannstache happens to be a very good coach.  Two sure signs of a well-coached team are limited penalties & turnovers.  Control the line of scrimmage and add in good defense and excellent special teams and you have the ingredients to win most of your games  (I think even Nitters can attest to that formula).  Since Dave's been able to get the players necessary to work this system, I think we've seen all of this come to fruition over the past two years.  Hail to Pitt!

"The legislators should tag a Pitt-Penn State game to the next disbursement of state monies to the 2 schools."

Why in the world should politicians get involved in this?  Do we want our state legislators to force MLB to put the Pirates and the Phillies in the same division?

apm,

I just read, last week I believe, that Boise St has been contacting top teams to play. They, Boise St, even said they'd just do one game on the road against some of those teams, no home and home, and they're still being turned away.

That's quite damning of the BCS system that it discourages teams from playing top non-conference games.

How "good" Pitt's next three opponents are doesn't concern me. They play the most storied program in the country on national television, their (new) most bitter rival on national television, and most likely, the number one team in the conference - again, most likely on national television. Combined, it will take a great deal of emotion to pull it off. That's what concerns me. If Pitt wins all three, it will deserve a top five or six ranking.

"Pitt has a better team and a better coach. "

I agree Bob.  I'd take Frank Cignetti over Charlie Weis any day.

Who thinks ND is good?  They lost to Navy and another mediocre Michigan team.  Of course Pitt should beat them.

I'll add to CSF's comment that in addition to next year, the remaining upcoming years' schedules appear somewhat daunting.  I don't have the information at hand, but I BELIEVE that in two years, Pitt's first 3 games are Utah, Iowa and Notre Dame (or is it Miami or VT?).  Sorry, can't remember details, but it has a definite WOW factor.  Trust me.

Here is Pitt's scheduled OOC games for the next few years

www.nationalchamps.net/.../pittsburgh_future.htm

I don't see how anyone can take issue with this

Bob,

I did not mean to imply Pitt play an unrepresentative out of conference schedule. What I was saying was when, like others, they schedule a Divison 1-AA opponent like Youngstown, why not schedule a Villanova or Delaware or a school like Grambling that has a national following. And schedule schools like North Texas instead of Buffalo and other MAC schools. I recall hearing on ESPN something like 18 current Division 1A quarterbacks are from Texas. I know Pitt already has a freshman QB from the Lone Star state. Perhaps they can tap Texas more in the future.

Navy in my opinion is an excellent opponent. I know that Navy has an interest in varying it opponents and the regions where it plays for academic recruiting reasons, but it would be nice if Pitt could play them as regularly as possible. It hearkens back to the days when, though they were independents, Eastern schools comprised kind of a quasi group. For that matter, if Pitt is going to continue to play a MAC opponent it ought to be Temple.

And that raises question:  what became of the Lambert Trophy?  Could the Big East not co-opt it and present the Lambert Trophy to its conference champion?  To me that seems like a good way to strengthen the Big East brand.  Perhaps with time it could garner a big name corporate partner. Penn State may someday regret its move to the Big 10 where it will never have the cachet of Ohio State and Michigan, while in the East it would have been the centerpiece. But The Nittnay Lions are gone for good, whether or not the Pitt-PSU rivalry is resumed.  The Big East has some challenges but has some opportunities as well. It can celebrate the “east” in Big East with the Lambert Trophy; make it a media event. Maybe the Big East can become more prominent in the college football mix at the new Yankee Stadium and ask its member on some sort of regular rotating basis to play a late season meaningful game there.  On a smaller scale, perhaps Yankee Stadium as a venue for Big WWast football could be analogous to what Madison Square Garden means for Big East basketball.  

Bob, I agree with a lot of this. My only problem is your opinion that ND is "wildly overrated". I really don't think there are enough people who think ND is a very good team. Other than Charlie Wies, I don't know anyone who doesn't recognize that ND has a weaknesses everywhere except maybe QB and WR. I think the hype surrounding the game (locally, anyway) is more about the excitement Pitt fans have that Pitt can ruin the weekend for a lot of arrogant ND fans in-person and on national TV. I don't think any Pitt fans are looking at this as a way for Pitt to prove it can beat a top-tier opponent.

P.S.

RE: Lambert Trophy, etc.

Instead of focuisng on what the Big East is not, I suggest building on what it is.

Howard,  1st of all (and I can be wrong about this), I believe Pitt had to schedule YSU because of Clemson backing out of a commitment 2 years ago forcing the Pitt AD staff to scramble since it already has a large task of scheduling 5 OOC games as it is.

I agree that Delaware or Villanova would be more acceptable than YSU.  Note that Pitt played Grambling 2 years ago ... and FWIW, Villanova with Brian Wetsbrook played at Pitt Stadium back in the late 90s.

PSU is likely not to regret its decision to join the B10 due to the large amount of money it gets from the conference's large TV contract and bowl tie-ins.  I'm not so sure if Boston College feels this way though.

With PSU playing mostly midwest opponents and BC playing SE opponents, the Lambert Trophy has lost its luster .. although it would seem an appropriate award for the BE champ .... but is it approriate if Louisvlle or Cincy wins the BE?

Bob is right about ND and Pitt so ND will probably win by 2 TD's.  In all seriousness can someone name for me the last standout defensive player for the Irish.  Until Chuck Weis realizes he needs LB's as much as QB's and wideouts the Irish will stay mediocre at best.

collegesportsfan ,

I suggest the Lambert Trophy as a tool with which to buid the Big East brand and to add luster to the conference. I nkow there are challenges.

I agree with yur fully on all for one.

PSU is gone.

So, in the words of Crosby, Stills , Nash and Young ( sounds like a law frim doesn't it)

If you're down and confused

And you don't remember who you're talkin' to

Concentration slip away

Cause your baby (i.e. Penn State) is so far away.

Well, there's a rose in a fisted glove

And the eagle flies with the dove

And if you can't be with the one you love

Love the one you're with

Love the one you're with (WVU, Suracuse, U Conn, Rutgers et al.)

"In all seriousness can someone name for me the last standout defensive player for the Irish.(?)"

BobRob(1B)#7-

'07 - Tom Zbikowski (DB)

'06 - Victor Abiamiri (DL)

     - Derek Landri (DL)

'04 - Justin Tuck (DL)

"The legislators should tag a Pitt-Penn State game to the next disbursement of state monies to the 2 schools."

So if Penn Sate refuses to play Pitt, students in the Swanson School of Engineering don't get the latest engineering software?  The Pitt School of Medicine takes a budget cut?  Remember that Pitt and Penn State are, first and foremost, educators trying to develop our future leaders and advance technology.  While sports are big business to them, they are still secondary and in Pitt's case, don't add any funds to the general fund, apart from keeping the alma mater in people's thoughts.  No game is important enough to hold students' education hostage.

To continue to rebuild their respective reputations, Pitt & their Big East brethren must avoid the trap that Boise State has fallen into: BSU played mostly a series of nobodies before it and the WAC had garnered enough street cred to avoid national scorn.  And Pitt & BE teams have largely been smarter, especially past coupla years.

In other words, it's not enough for Pitt, by itself, to play even five big-name somebodies unless (say) Cincy and WVU do too.  But when Cincy, WVU and USF schedule and play well versus (and hopefully beat) name teams like Oregon State, Auburn, Colorado and FSU on the road, it together raises both their individual and BE's collective credibilities.  And makes their games vs. Pitt far more meaningful.  On the other hand, Rutgers takes a different tactic, and as a result that win was downgraded in perception by their woefully weak non-conf schedule.

Are you listening, JoePa?  When you feast on an endless series of cupcakes, then lose -- at home to boot -- to the only two decent teams on your schedule, one must conclude PSU's program, touted as the Big 10(11) flagship, is mediocre at best.  Which drags down the Big 10(11) whole reputation, and with it the BCS rankings of everyone who plays them.

As long as Pitt keeps playing other national names -- and preferrably more than one per year -- we'll be doing our part.  On the other end of the spectrum, any BE team that plays more than one D1-AA team (or heaven forbid, a D-2 team) per year, Pitt included, should be docked league-champ points, or penalized somehow.

I do agree with HowardInLafayette: if only for recruiting purposes Pitt should also keep playing members of the SEC, Big 12 and Pac10.  Recent early season games against Texas A&M and Nebraska and others of that ilk were really fun, and would be more fun if we start winning them.

HowardinLafayette,   FWIW, I saw CSNY's famed "4 Way Street' tour in Cleveland in '74, and as I remember they  opened with 'Love the One Your With.'   (they played both groups and individual songs, and ended with Ohio .. only 20 miles from Kent State)

"Are you listening, JoePa?  When you feast on an endless series of cupcakes..."

Come on. Again, it's not entirely their fault the OOC schedule is garbage. When they scheduled Syracuse, Syracuse was good. They stink now. When they first scheduled UVA for a few years from now, UVA was good, now they stink too. They have both Rutgers and Nebraska on the books for 2012/13 (I think those are the dates) and they're both good/respectable teams, but will they stink then too and get the PSU schedule scorn then?

The reverse is true also. When PSU scheduled Bama in the early part of the decade, they were only decent. Now they're a powerhouse.

Lastly, again, the BCS system is one that's set up to punish, not reward, playing all good OOC schedules.

There's a good article about it here:

rivals.yahoo.com/.../news

I say play one good team OOC (if possible) and the rest patsies, which act as a de facto pre season.

I hope you are right, Bob, but I don't believe its that clear.

ND is the #10 offense in I-A, Pitt is 43rd. ND is averaging over 20 pts a game, meaning every Pitt trip inside the 10 needs to yield 7 and not 3. More Hyno the Rhino and less waggle as we saw early in the Syracuse game.

ND is #5 in passing.....which has been a bit of a problem for the Panthers D this year, even if some nice adjustments have been made of late.

On the flip side, Pitt is #1 in sacks, which we will need to continue. ND's huge O-line makes that a bit of a challenge. Here's hoping Wanny and Bennett get creative and disguise some blitzes - which I'm not counting on.

Pitt obviously has the run game and ND does not - or chooses not to.

We should all expect the Irish will score 21 pts or more. Our O needs to have a big night, which I think is realistic, given ND's defensive woes this year.

Again, I hope you are right Bob....I'm already nervously waiting for kickoff.

(Joe: I'm disappointed you're showing a lack of confidence in your top 10 team at home against an unranked opponent.  Will I see you Friday night? - - Bob Smizik)

Bob, I think the game is on SAT. nite......        :)

(I know. I was asking him about Friday.... We've been known to frequent the same establishment.   :)  -- Bob Smizik)

collegesportsfan,

Well CSN&Y would excuse a visit to Cleveland. And I imagine the concert was memorable.

Although I think it is unlikely that the Pitt – PSU rivalry will resume until JoePa is through coaching,   Pitt is not in such a bad place. My point was that the Big East cab take measures to solidify itself and to build its football brand.  Pitt is far from unknown. I live in SEC country in Louisiana and people here remark favorably about Pitt. They remember Dorsett, Marino, etc. And they are especially appreciative of how Pitt opened the door for LSU to the BCS championship game for the 2007 season by upsetting WVU in Morganown.

I am just brainstorming with suggestions about the Lambert Trophy and games at Yankee Stadium. But I feel the Big East can become “Big” in the sense that it represents the Eastern region and the conference leadership builds its identity. As a group its members need to play well too of course.  

Below is information about the Lambert-Meadowlands Trophy. I suggest its criteria be tweaked just a little so that eligibility for the award be limited to schools that play a minimum of half their games against schools in the East. In other words, Penn State become ineligible. That is not to be vindictive. While Penn State may be located it State College it casts its lot with the Big 10 and plays mostly Midwest schools.  

"The Lambert-Meadowlands Trophy is an annual award given to the best team in the East in Division I FBS (formerly I-A) college football. . . . The trophy, established in 1936 as the "Lambert Trophy" to recognize supremacy in eastern college football, has since grown to recognize the best team in the East in Division I-A. The New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, operator of the Meadowlands Sports Complex, took over the administration of the Lambert Meadowlands Awards in 1983. To be eligible for the Lambert Meadowlands Award, a school must be located in the East or play half its schedule against eligible Lambert teams. The territory includes New York, New Jersey, New England and Pennsylvania, while teams in the bordering states of Delaware, Maryland, Virginia and West Virginia and the District of Columbia qualify if half their schedule features eligible teams. While they were members of the Big East Conference, Virginia Tech and Miami of Florida were also eligible. Current Big East members Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida are now eligible.”

Perhaps the Big East could work out an arrangement with the Meadowlands Authority whereby Big East members play some games in its venue in return for making the Lambert Trophy its championship trophy.

Dear Johnny Utah,

First some background.  ESPN is the big dog for promoting college football, no argument.

That said, do you follow ESPN’s chats & blogs?  If not, guess which one team’s fans are dope-slapped back into reality by every ESPN blogger, citing OCC skeds, whenever they ask why their team is disrespected?   Nope, not Boise State.  It’s the Nits.  And I mean EVERY time, they never miss a chance.

In other words, PSU’s national reputation for scheduling is currently worse than Boise’s.  That’s saying something.

In summary, you may be missing my point about Coach Paterno’s “Proven Model of Success” (JoePa’s PMS).  You mentioned games against Syracuse and UVA … or even Temple, those aren’t what ultimately drag down PSU’s national reputation.  Even playing College of Charleston is forgivable if early (as long as you play only one).  But playing them all in the same OCC sked?  Or worse, playing D1-AA Eastern Illinois – and in mid-season??? – is a joke.  EIU was a bad FCS team whenever they were scheduled.  

I concede that Paterno has done some good things for college football, one of which is the replay system.  I hope you can concede that he’s also done harm, especially lately.  One of which is his recent fondness for fattening up on only cupcakes.

This Pitt fan hopes the Nits keep playing four nobodies.  It leaves them vulnerable and ill-prepared to play decent teams under pressure.  Coupled with their growing lack of street cred, they’ll drop like stones when they inevitably lose those 2-3 games per year against decent teams.  

(Exactly what ``harm'' has Paterno done to college football. The man has some shortcomings in his later years, but as far as I'm concerned, like a physician, he's done no harm. I think your comment is pretty outrageous. Penn State playing a weak non-conference schedule is not doing harm to college football. -- Bob Smizik)

....and its a really great establishment at that.

Bob, I will be in town for the game and will look for you.

John's my favorite bartender in the world and its not a trip home with at least a stop there.

Gundy/Imma_Man,

:)

Hey, trust me, all the crud flung at PSU for their schedule is warranted, but I still maintain that it's not entirely their fault.

The E. Ill. game can be slammed, but there were a lot of moving parts as to why that game was on the schedule. Originally, that was PSU's bye week, but the Athletic Dept wanted another home game (for revenue purposes) and since the football program is the driving force for revenue, they were told to schedule a game by the Dept. I believe this decree came down within the past year-ish, so in College Football terms, that's last minute. Plus since it was to be a bye, i.e. a week off, they went out and scheduled a team that by playing them would both:

1. Amount to being a bye since the team is garbage

2. Give them a home game for revenue.

Trust me, I've seen how ill prepared we've been in person. The last three games I've gone to (Rose Bowl, Iowa, and OSU) have all been losses and it's been a pathetic showing on our part.

But don't kick dirt on PSU yet because of these losses. Scouts Inc has our recruiting class for 2010, despite said losses, at #3 in the country.

Johnny,

Dude, if you witnessed PSU's games vs. Iowa, SoCal and the Bug-eyes, you're a hero of mine!  I thought I was a masochist being a Pitt fan (haha), but you've lapped me.

Kidding aside, if only to preserve their pride & reputations, surely there musta been SOME / ANY other team the Nits couldda played mid-season besides Eastern Illinois.  I'll bet Pitt wouldda postponed its UConn game if asked.

Or go ahead and play EIU, whatever.  But then don't be shocked when pollsters dump yaz like hot rocks when you finally lose.  Does JoePa get that hurts his team, big picture?  Unsure....

Here's what shocks me: why no organized outcry from Nits fans?  Seriously, playing teams like EIU isnt even good sport.  Can't prove it, but I personally think Paranoid Paterno wants to pad his wins total, in case Bobby Bowden catches a tail wind.  Possible?  You bet!

Coach Gundy (smile)

Johnny,

One more thing I forgot, in response to your earlier post that Pitt's beaten no ranked teams so far this year.

If memory serves, USF was ranked when Pitt beat them (and either way, the Bulls are ranked now / again).  FWIW.

MG

Stillwater, OK (haha)

Speaking of Penn State playing cup cakes..............

mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx

"Seriously, playing teams like EIU isnt even good sport."

So I take it you didn't buy Paterno insisting that Eastern Illinois is a good football team?

My question is what are the Big Ten rules regarding scheduling OOC games after the regular season?  SInce the Big Ten always wraps up before Thanksgiving, there's no reason (short of a conference rule) that they couldn't find a suitable opponent to play on 11/28 or 12/5..  

Great article, Freedoman!  I was unaware the Nits have played only one ranked OCC team since 2005.  It's worse than I imagined.

Fans all over America should get on their knees and ask God to bless that Iowa kicker for saving us all from the dump-truckin' Florida wouldda laid on PSU last year, had they rope-a-doped it into the NC game.  Scores mighta approached that infamous old 220-0 Cumberland game.

There must be a "mistake" in the link posted above to Pitt's future out of conference schedule because it appears to show Pitt having a 2 and 1 deal in favor of Iowa.  

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Reading,  Iowa played here last year.  

Obviously, PSU's priority is maximizing its wealth and they do it well.  7 or 8 home games a year getting over 100k .. and it also provides them the easiest path to a BCS Bowl .... their ardent fanbase obviously have their back, and supports (and rationalizes) their every move.   Who can blame them?

("We've been known to frequent the same establishment.   :)  -- Bob Smizik)

Allrightey Bob, but take it easy on the beer n' booze Fri. nite.   :)  This is literally a huge weekend of football in Pittsburgh......Pitt hosting ND on national TV Sat. nite, and the Steelers in a must-win game (for the AFC North) on Sunday.....!!

Our legislators should get involved with reviving the Pitt-Penn St. game because that is what the majority of their constituents want, and it would cost nothing. Besides, it will take time away from them figuring out a new tax or a way to increase their salaries.

As for the argument that Penn St. may refuse to play the game and quit accepting supports from the state, thus taking away from their capacity to provide a quality education, were you laughing out loud when you typed that as much as I was when I read it? Penn St. receives about 10% of its budget from the state-somewhere around $260 million. I know JoPa swings a lot of weight, but not that much weight.

CSF:  Looks like your site was more up to date than the Pantherlair.  It had the NH game listed 4th, but what I didn't see was that it's date hadn't been determined yet.  So it looked like the first 4 games were Utah, Miami, ND, then NH.  Thanks for the heads up.

Howard in Lafeyette:  I was assuming Laf, Indiana.  I did active duty in Alexandria Louisiana in the 80's, and saw a Ragin' Cajuns game at home (weren't they USL back then?), I believe against La. Tech, and also a Billy Joel concert at the Cajun Dome if I'm not mistaken, but I'm not sure.  It's all a blur....  !

My point is that the legislature shouldn't be using threats against students to push through a football game, which the majority of constituents don't care about anyway since the majority of people aren't college football fans.  If they are going to do that, why not have them legislate coaching changes, or push for more in-state recruiting?  Maybe they could get involved in other campus decisions, such as curriculum changes.  It's bad enough they are using the state related schools as pawns in the gambling debate, they don't need to be used for something as petty as football.

ImmaManIm40 wrote...

"Fans all over America should get on their knees and ask God to bless that Iowa kicker for saving us all from the dump-truckin' Florida wouldda laid on PSU last year, had they rope-a-doped it into the NC game.  Scores mighta approached that infamous old 220-0 Cumberland game."

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Sounds alot like what DID happen in the '04 Fiesta Bowl, but since nobody ever remembers the losers, I'm havin' a bit of trouble recollecting exactly what team that NCAA powerhouse Utah embarrassed that night, lmk if you recall Imma.

As bad as Fiesta '04 was, Sun Bowl '08 was quite possibly the worst organized football game EVER played, that one I happen to remember OSU-3......Pitt-0...OUCHHH!

FWIW, the UF has a mandate from the state government to play 9 games within the state of Florida (can't confirm it except I heard it a while ago on ESPN Colin Cowerd show.)  It is meant as an incentive for them to play the in-state schools, but mostly UF uses it as an excuse for their weak OOC schedule.

GTurner, our legislature wastes time on sillier stuff every day than this, voting to commemorate Judy's diner for having the best pancakes in the state or voting to give sanctuary to a turkey at Thanksgiving.

blitzburgh:

Those two bowl games you mention were meaningless then and even more meaningless now.  Get over it.  BTW, what happened in last years Rose Bowl?

There's a fundemental difference between having an intern spend half an hour writing up a resolution to recognize an individual or acknowledge a holiday and forcing a business decision on an institution for no other purpose than entertainment value.  I'd love to see the Pitt Theatre Department put on a production of Les Mis.  Should we threaten to withold funds for that?

Playin' in a BCS title game an/or getting blown out by the NCAA TEAM OF THE DECADE is favorable to getting embarrassed in a BCS Bowl by Utah, led by that awesomely marginal NFL talent Alex Smith...meaningless???

Your "team of the decade" lost to the great Vince Young in the title game.  Unless your playing in the title game, you get paid the same in the other bowls win or lose.

"Unless your playing in the title game, you get paid the same in the other bowls win or lose."

So then by that logic & since Pitt damned sure won't be playin' in the title game...you couldn't care less what Pitt does in their Bowl game this year?

to go along with thanking the Iowa kicker for his efforts, we also have to thank the Northwestern DE/LB for finally exposing what objective fans all knew ... that Iowa this year is a complete fraud.  (don't get me wrong, I assure you that I didn't want to see Stanzi get hurt.)

in fairness, I do wish BC wasn't upset by Syracuse in the final game of 04 allowing Pitt to win a tiebreaker of 4 teams ina a 7 team league (that included Temple and 1st year UConn.)

"Your "team of the decade" lost to the great Vince Young in the title game."

right, the same one that has claimed 2 titles while posting a 93-17 record this decade...even though I wasn't annointing SC Team of the Decade.  My point was that it's less of an embarrassment to get blown out, either in last year's Rose Bowl by SC or in the BCS title game by UF (as per Imma's scenario) as both would mean getting beat by one of the 2 teams viewed by most as Team of the Decade...surely you do not believe that to be on par with the beat down handed Pitt by U-T-A-H, in the emabarrassment dept.  

Thanks BlitzBurghDude.  I think they were all recruited before Weis.  No question Willingham had defensive focus.

You win blitzburgh.  I will concede that Penn State only gets humiliated by the cream of the crop.

EJAB,

Yes I am in Lafayette, LA, home of the Ragin’ Cajuns.

I cannot talk about the rest of LA, but here they seem to keep things in perspective. If the LSU Tigers win it’s great. And if they lose, well, while that’s too bad but they don’t let it ruin the parties.  That’s pretty much how they handle hurricanes too.

The poor Cajuns I think would draw better to their nifty little stadium if they would play the Tigers’ games on their stadium’s Jumbotron.  

BTW, the Saints look pretty tough. Perhaps the super Bowl will be Black and Gold all the way around.

Hoping for Panthers and Steelers victories this weekend.

Y’all,  laissez les bon temps roulez. Translation:  Yinz,   let the good times roll.

Howard

GTurner, entertainment is the business the football programs is in, so it is hardly frivolous to expect them to provide maximum entertainment to residents of the state.

Would Penn St. lose a few dollars scheduling Pitt home and away? I'm sure. Is that why they don't do it anymore? No. It is the bullheadedness and thin skin of an old guy I used to respect a great deal.

Perhaps the state could make the change "budget neutral" as part of the legislation.    

It's not for the state to determine what is "maximum entertainment value" and it certainly isn't their place to use money intended for education to ensure you and I get to watch a favorite football rivalry.  This is especiallly true of Penn St football, which is self sufficient and doesn't spend a dime of state funds.  In fact, you could almost make an argument that any state involvement should be to prevent the game from happening and instead encouraging Pitt and Temple to play major opponents from neighboring states.  That would bring more tourism dollars to the state and not force Pitt or Penn State to give up a home game.  That would be better for the local economy than a Pitt-Penn St game.

GTurner, PSU takes over a quarter billion dollars a year from the state government, and always begs for more. I didn't for a second mean those extra funds should got to the football program, but to the general operating fund. Many state residents want Pitt and Penn St. to play. The state government certainly has the leverage to get the constituents what they want.

Your argument that the school should have the right to run their "business" as they see fit includes their right to accept or reject that quarter billion, not the right to tell the state how it should spend its money.

Your rationale that the state should stay out of Penn St.'s actions is unrealistic; nobody gives anybody huge amounts of money with no strings attached.

The tourism angle is funny, especially how you suggest Pitt and Temple do it, but not PSU.

G, you know in your heart of hearts this should happen.  

I only left PSU because they could sell out the stadium playing Bloomsburg.

I would love to see Pitt play Penn State again and would support the state legislature encouraging it through referendums or trying to broker a deal.  I'd even accept tying the game to funding of the construction of athletic facilities.  I just don't see how you can threaten to remove one cent from education spending over a football game.  

I know the state can spend their money (our money) how they see fit, but tell me honestly what you would think if you had a child in one of those two schools and were told that the state threatened the funding of your kid's education over a football game.  Maybe they could expand this to city governments.  You know, fix your pot holes or we cancel Head Start.

Well I think I have it.

How  does this sound for a Pitt schedule?  It has a nice balance between eastern opponents and tough opponents including they-are-Penn-State, from coast to coast to coast. I've covered the Gulf Coast too.

Here goes.

Home:

Oklahoma

Navy

Syracuse

Notre Dame

Penn State

Away:

UCLA

WVU

Tulane

Boston College

Army

Florida State

Yes, I know that's only 11 games but with that schedule who needs one more.

Sound familiar. Well if you guessed the Pitt Panthers 1971 edition go treat yourself to an Original Hotdog.

With all due respect to Cas Myslinski and apoligies really due to Carl Depasqua, no one schedules like that anymore.

That was my first year at Pitt and Oklahoma was the first game I attended as a student. I still remember Joe Wylie and Greg Pruitt making long runs all afternoon and all those blond coeds from Oklahoma.

As for scores check out these:

Oklahoma - 55-29

Penn State- 55-28

Notre Dame-  56-7,   I guess Ara poured it on.

Oklahoma, Penn State and Notre Dame were ranked respectively second, fith and thirteenth that season.

I think the Panthers won just one game and I don't remember who it was but I bet that Dave Wannstedt does.

From those ashes next season arose Pitt's Johnny Majors era. And I also remember listening  to Pitt's first game in 1972 when they "upset" Vince Dooleys Georgia Bulldogs 3-3 between the heges in Athens, GA. Thank you Carson Long.

Who can say Pitt does not have a proud, albeit uneven football tradition?

See

digital.library.pitt.edu/.../athletic.html

for the 1971 and other Pitt football guides.

Bob,

I couldn't agree with you more on this one. You've illustrated everything that I've been thinking about this game beautifully.

I know that Notre Dame is going to put up some points but Pitt's defense should be able to hold them to 21-24. Unless Pitt plays badly and beats themselves, that offense should hang at least 35-40 points on the Irish.

38-24 Pitt says my crystal ball.

Let's recap.  This started as a blog about the Pitt-ND game, and instantly morphed into another Pitt-Nits spat that's raged on for days.  

Good thing no one cares about this rivalry anymore, or else blood mighta been shed and virginal sisters' honors called into question (iff'n the sisters hailed from Centre County).

This spat should be settled on the field, everyone knows it.  Unfortunately (for now) PSU's emasculated AD has lost control of his program to the Octogenarian coach.  He & Nits Prez even tried to force Octo-coach to retire a few years back ... he said [heck] no, get off my porch and outta my house ... and they blinked.  Obeyed.  Perhaps even bowed while backing out, I wasn't there to confirm for sure.

So now the AD schedules the weakest possible teams he can find, shy of Bucknell and Bobby-Mo, at the command of Octo-coach.  Thus the appeased Octo-coach lets AD keep his job, while always keeping him one win ahead of Bobby Bowden.  And this "Proven Method of Success" (JoePa's PMS) ruins every Nits seasons by leaving them ill-prepared to face the 1-2 decent teams the Big 10(11) makes them play (the league, apparently, not yet being lap dogs under the spell of Octo-coach.

So until we can settle it on the field, PSU please keep playing Bloomsburg and Bucknell and Bobby-Mo.  And Eastern Illinois in mid-season to "prepare" for battle with the Bug-eyes.  Ruined Nits seasons, and being ranked ahead of Octo-coach, makes this Lifelong Pitt Fan very happy indeed.

Bob, with all due respect (and conceding this is your stage), IMHO Joe Paterno's OCC scheduling has indeed harmed college football under the current BCS system.  Here's why.

First, background:  I personally hope they never have D1-A playoffs, and realize that puts me in the minority.  I've stated why in previous blogs, omitted now for brevity.

That said, I'm strongly in favor, sans playoffs, that Strength of Schedule must Must MUST be considered.  If not, PSU or Boise State can simply schedule an endless series of nobodies, present puffy 11-0 records, and dare the Powers-that-Be to deny them access to the NC game.  Boise?  No prob, newbies without street cred.  But JoePa the Icon is a much harder denial.

And it nearly worked.  Had it not been for Iowa's PK, he'dda gotten away with it last year.  

And now the virus has spread.  Look at the OCC skeds by Florida and Texas this year, nearly as bad as the Nits (so they can keep pace with the Nits).  Unless SOS gets back in BCS rankings, this virus will spread everywhere.  And JoePa started this virus.

In a nutshell, that's how JoePa has hurt college football -- and continues to hurt it to this very day.  Well, at least until SOS sanity or playoffs become reality.

Respectfully submitted.

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ImmaManIm40 wrote-

"So until we can settle it on the field, PSU please keep playing Bloomsburg and Bucknell and Bobby-Mo.  And Eastern Illinois in mid-season to "prepare" for battle with the Bug-eyes.  Ruined Nits seasons, and being ranked ahead of Octo-coach, makes this Lifelong Pitt Fan very happy indeed."

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Happy INDEED, just not a very frequent warm & fuzzy feel, since the Nitts, during Joe Pa's tenure, have enjoyed a SUPERIOR ranking in the final polls an astounding 29 times over the Pitts...meanwhile the Pitts have enjoyed the same a scant 5 times.

by decade...

60's - 3-0

70's - 8-2

80's - 5-2

90's - 9-0

00's - 4-1

In addition the Pitts (INDEED) have failed to even be ranked in 23 of those 29 years of Nitts SUPERIORITY, meanwhile the Nitts have only not been ranked on a paltry 3 occassions.

And finally, the Nitts have ENJOYED 21 top 10 rankings & 2 National Championships to the Pitts 3 top 10's & 1 title.

ImmaManIm40 wrote-

"And now the virus has spread.  Look at the OCC skeds by Florida and Texas this year, nearly as bad as the Nits (so they can keep pace with the Nits).  Unless SOS gets back in BCS rankings, this virus will spread everywhere.  And JoePa started this virus.

In a nutshell, that's how JoePa has hurt college football -- and continues to hurt it to this very day.  Well, at least until SOS sanity or playoffs become reality."

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"JoePa started this virus"...seriously?  sounds like you're the one tryin' to spread a virus...of inaccuracies & biased opinion bordering on hate!

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