Navy, Pitt win; Penn State loses

Bob,

A few comments:

This has been a disappointing year for PSU, regardless of how things turn out the rest of the way.  Having a senior QB and many offensive starters back this year, and the two biggest games of the year at home, expectations were a lot higher than where it looks like things will end up.  I'm struggling to find what the best win is thus far - probably Northwestern.  

I don't agree with you about Terrelle Pryor though.  Although I don't feel that any college athlete should take the heavy criticism that he has, he is almost to the end of his second season with the Buckeyes, and he played a significant role last season.  So, for someone touted as being one of the best recruits in the nation, he has not lived up to expectations and played poorly enough at times to warrant some criticism.  There is also plenty of time for him to live up to those expectations - but I think if he does - then he will be justifiably praised as well.

Congrats to Pitt for keeping their streak of playing 9 consecutive games against teams that were unranked at the time.  Next week will be 10 once Notre Dame drops out of the polls, and then WVU will likely make it 11.  (If Cincy can keep playing "impressively" like they did against UConn, maybe a falter down the stretch could make it 12 for 12.) Are there any other teams in the nation that can make that claim? (USF is the only Pitt opponent that was ranked at any point of the season - but so was Michigan and a lot of other teams that proved they were not worthy of being a ranked team as the season as gone on.)  I just hope that if Pitt finishes 9-3 or 10-2 you will also call their season unimpressive, based on all of the teams they have beaten, especially with the loss to NC State, one of the worst teams in the ACC.

The most disappointing aspect of the Penn State game is that with Iowa opening the door, and having everything to play for at home in front of 110,000 people and nearly a national television audience, Penn State inexplicably failed to show up and simply went through the motions.

An argument can be made that no team really has an impressive win this year.  Florida? Florida beat LSU, but LSU now has two losses.  Texas?Texas' best win is arguably Oklahoma who is no longer in the national picture.  Alabama? See Florida discussion.  If Penn State has no impressive wins then Iowa's and Ohio State's big wins over Penn State can hardly be deemed impressive.  Cincinnati?  TCU? Georgia Tech?  LSU? Pitt?  Anybody?

(You can make the argument but I think you lose.  How is a win over two-loss LSU not impressive?  LSU's two losses have been to Florida and Alabama.

It's a sad fact that because there isn't a playoff, college teams are afraid to schedule difficult games and many teams don't have impressive wins. But Florida surely does. And so does Alabama, which has wins over four ranked teams. -- Bob Smizik)

Reading, you make a great point about no really big wins at the top of the rankings, especially now that Oregon AND USC lost again-Oregon's loss hurts them and Boise St. I would argue that beating LSU is the highest quality wins of those listed, and at least Florida and Alabama will play each other, so you will have one legitimate championship game contender. Maybe we should just crown the SEC champ and forgo the title game. It will really be funny if Texas loses in the B12 Championship game.

Mundyscorner, if PSU and Pitt were playing each other both of them would make their schedules a bit spiffier. It used to be that the high quality top to bottom of a Big 10 schedule made piling up the cupcakes in the non conference schedule OK, but those days are long gone. As it is Penn St. has played 5 good (not great) opponents in the past two years (Iowa twice, Ohio St. twice, and USC) and got soundly beaten 4 of the 5. PSU's offense for two seasons now has been able to move the ball extremely well against lesser teams, but flounders against the better Ds. I was really hoping Clark could have a standout season and compete for the Heisman.

I believe the surprise was not that Navy's triple option offense would score 3 TDs against the Irish, it was that they were outscored by Navy.  They will come to town either really smarting or really down.

I had thought for the past few weeks that PSU had passed Iowa as B10's best team, and not surprised at all that Iowa lost.  However, you can never underestimate any team with the talent that OSU has ... even if they don't always show it.

Yesterday showed the schizophrenia of college sports, and the emotions of 18-22 year olds.  Oregon looked unbeatable last week. Cincy had a large halftime lead, only to look very beatable in the 2nd half for the first time all year.  Navy lost at home to Temple last week (albeit without its star QB for most of the game), but when into South Bend and won.

Mundy, I understand your bitterness but just remember, the only pertinent rankings are the final ones ... they are the ones when perceptions matter the least.

Looking through the Penn State blogs concerning their loss to Ohio State I have been surprised to see several references to Pitt. Some Penn State fans regret not playing Pitt this year as the game would have toughened up their team. Some bemoan the fact that Pitt will jump ahead of State in the polls this week. Some just provide the usual put-downs. However, a game this year between these ancient rivals would have benefitted both programs. Maybe Dave Wannstedt is right to conjecture that as soon as the old man retires at State, the rivalry game will resume.

This is a fairly mediocre college football season, especially considering the experience at the quarterback position that college football had this season at its high profile schools.

Reading, you sound bitter.  That Penn State home loss stung, eh?  Penn State's last three games against good teams have been a disaster: Ohio State, Iowa and USC.  Their lines have been whipped in all thee.  Why?  Kevin Morris, my question to you is when was the Big Ten ever a consistently tough top to bottom conference?  For almost 30 years it was called the Big 2 and Little 8 by everybody outside of the Little 8.  

I don't fault any teams for their schedules, the kids don't make it, they just play it.  The big money is in getting to the BCS Bowls, that is the way the play is written.  If you are an A.D. forced to fund 30 other sports programs that don't bring in any money, why would you risk a $12 million payout by loading up your non conference regular season schedule with teams who can beat you?  This isn't basketball where you have a playoff and can lose in the regular season.  If you are Penn State and you can still sell 110,000 seats by bringing in Akron, why would you risk bringing in USC?  You aren't going to make any more money and in the end, if you lose, it could kill your chances of the big payout later.

As to Terrelle Pryor, since when is a sophomore quarterback supposed to dominate college football?  Pryor didn't asked to be hyped out of high school.   Dan Marino, who was a far more polished product coming out of high school than Pryor, had very mediocre stats through his sophomore season at Pitt.  25 TDs, 23 Ints, and about a150 yards passing per game on average.   Those were Marino's cumulative stats through his sophomore season.  In his junior year he exploded.

(Excellent point about Pryor. Fair-minded fans shouldn't be faulting him for not living up to the hype. In fairness to Marino, he was a backup for the first part of his freshman season and injured for the second half (or so) of his sophomore season. -- Bob Smizik)

Bob,

As a Penn State grad living in the heart of LSU country, LSU is a very unimpressive 2 loss team who should have at least 3 losses maybe more.  A goal line stand against Mississippi State in the last 30 seconds of the game avoided an embarrassing loss to a perennial SEC also ran.  LSU also struggled against Washington and Georgia.  

Alabama should have lost at home to Tennessee (a multi-loss team that lost to UCLA)(2 blocked field goals in last few seconds) a few weeks ago.  Alabama's tough non-conference schedule against the likes of Florida International, North Texas, and Tennessee-Chattanooga certainly separates them from Penn State.  At least Temple is bowl eligible.  What about Alabama's game against Virginia Tech?  Virginia Tech lost to North Carolina greatly tainting that victory.  

Florida hasn't really had any close calls, but its non-conference schedule of Charleston Southern, Troy, Florida International, and Florida State (not the Florida State of the 1980s and 90s) again is questionable.  

Finally, saying that LSU's only two losses are to the likes of Florida and Alabama is illusory.  Penn State's two losses are to Iowa (until yesterday undefeated and ranked in the Top 5) and Ohio State (conference champion or co-champion 4 years in a row).  An SEC team can apparently lose multiple games to other top SEC teams and that is somehow okay and not a reflection of whether the team that lost is any good.  But when a Big Ten team's only losses are to the two teams curently tied for first place, that somehow brands the losing team as "unimpressive" if they finish up 10-2?  (Wait a minute.  Forget that argument.  I forgot that the Big Ten should lose its automatic BCS bid because it is so lame.)

I agree with your point about a playoff and so posted a few weeks ago.  

(Alabama has beaten four ranked teams, one on the road. LSU was fourth in the country when Florida won at LSU.

Both Florida and Alabama have impressive wins. To say otherwise makes no sense. -- Bob Smizik)

Enough of the whining about Pitt playing unranked teams. They have yet to play Cincinnati and West Virginia, who are at the very least, equal to Ohio State and Iowa. Plus, Notre Dame is better than any non-conference opponent PSU played. Wait until they play the games. The fact is, Pitt would most likely beat PSU this year, but we all know that we won't get a chance to find out.

I DISAGREE WITH ALL OF YOU!

In my opinion this is a great year in college football. It's nice to go into veiwing a game where you don't know who might pull off a win or upset.

Navy plays tough and always shows up on game day.

Zach Collaro is the real deal at Cinci and reminds me of a smaller version of Tim Tebow in his style of play. Connecticut showed real heart and is a credit to the Big East and merited a slot on the national stage last night.

Pitt did what it had to do to win and is learning how to pound the ball with the RB and fullback which may wear down that Cinci D-line in the 4th quarter when Pitt plays them.Cignetti appears to be finding his groove and comfort zone with the offense.

The Big Ten is overhyped and inconsistent but still merits respect and fear come game day.

And the SEC remains the best conference in college football hands down.

May as well admit it folks the old cliche of "on any given saturday" has never held more true than this years parity amongst the various conferences.

After reading so many blog entries week after week, I was under the assumption that Penn State fans no longer cared about Pitt.  If so, why is Pitt always talked about by Penn State fans.  We all know why...they NEED Pitt just like Pitt NEEDs them!

Regarding the schedules of each team, I find it difficult to accurately pick the hardest schedule.  At the season's end, we can assess the quality wins.  The final poll will tell us who had the most wins over ranked opponents.  Until then, or until Pitt and Penn State play each other, we are relegated to comparing common opponents.  Let's take a look at the past two seasons...

2008 ( Syracuse, Iowa, Oregon State)

Pitt (Win, Win, Loss)

Penn State (Win , Loss, Win)

2009 (Syracuse)

Pitt (Win)

Penn State (Win)

It appears as though playing each other is the only way to settle the ever-growing argument that takes place weekly between Penn State and Pitt fans.  Even though Penn State doesn't really care about Pitt.

By the way, this week's rankings are out:

Pitt...#8-AP and #9-USA Today

Penn State...#19-AP and #17 USA Today

PITT's schedule was much tougher than State Penn's schedule by far.

Only the most ardent of PITT haters(nitters & billies) would deny this.

The FACTS show State Penn didn't even leave the cozy confines of

Happy-less Valley until October.  By that point PITT had ALREADY played 2 road games against non-conference opponents. ALL of

State Penn's non-con games (victims) have been in 'The Country'

as Pryor called it.  Meaning they not only schedule cupcakes, they

also won't go anywhere to play these cupcakes.  NC State well not a great team, still is better than any of State Penn's non-con victims. As a group, Notre Dame, NC State, Buffalo & YSU, with 2 being on the road is far superior to the Paid Victims of Happy-less Valley, that being Temple, Syracuse, Akron & Eastern Illinois

In FACT 3 of PITT's first 5 games were on the ROAD, not the easiest place to win in college football and exactly why State

Penn schedules NO non-con road game annually. A cowardly act indeed, as is Depends-able Joe's decision not to play PITT.

Perhaps they should skip the White Out's at Happy-less Valley

and have a Depends Out.  Enjoy that traditional season ending

battle with Sparty for whatever the Land Grant trophy is. LOL

I was a bit ambivalent about the Navy win because I wanted to see Notre Dame ranked coming in next Saturday, but with Veterans Day coming up and the gritty way Navy plays the game it was great to see them beat ND on the road again for the second time in three years. (sorry Beano)

As for the fact that no collection of teams seem to really stand out this year, you better all get used to it because it's the way it's  going to be for years. Most all Div1 schools have good facilities and coaches now, and all these players are in shape. The really good schools get the players with speed, but if you can recruit into your system you can give any school now a good game.

I, like Chilco99, like it this way too.

It's no longer the way it was in the '60's and '70's when the top teams regularly won games 70-3 or 50-0.

BTW Mundy, here's an interesting article for you and other Big 11 fans to read: Warning, eating nothing but cupcakes can be hazardous to your health.

mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx

Bob,

Your argument regarding LSU is based upon the invalid assumption that LSU's high "ranking" truly represented their ability as a team at the times they lost.  The same can probably be said regarding Alabama's and Florida's victories over other so-called "ranked" teams this year.  

My point is that LSU, like PSU, lost the two "big games" on its schedule this year (Florida and Alabama), will not win its conference, and was less than impressive in other conference wins (e.g., Miss. St. last second win).  Penn State was clearly never the fourth best team in the nation, but I do not believe that LSU ever was either.  Florida and Alabama, however, are the clear beneficiaries of LSU's inflated ranking when compared to other undefeated teams.  

(I think this discussion began when you countered my point that Penn State has played nobody with your point that nobody has played nobody. I think you'll agree with me that Alabama has played somebody (beat four ranked teams).  Florida has beaten LSU, which you say is no good but which is still ranked 11th. Florida also has beaten Tennessee, Arkansas and Georgia, which has been ranked this season.  I think Florida has beaten better teams than Penn State has. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. -- Bob Smizik)

Hey Bob,

I could not agree more with your comments about Navy. Its a very special group of young folks who go to Annapolis (BTW - I assume you meant athletic scholarships - on an academic basis, they are a fairly sharp bunch).

As I mentioned in a post a couple weeks ago, the ND/Navy relationship is a special one, dating back to the pre-WW II days. There was a time when their standing in football was reversed and Navy was the powerhouse. I admire ND's commitment to the series over the years and its been a lot of fun to see Navy really make a series of it lately.

Anyone who has not been to Annapolis to see a game, should. The pageantry of Midshipmen and Marines marching into the stadium (the line seems to go on for miles!), the Billy Goat, and both teams standing together following the game for the playing of the Navy Hymn is really something special. On top of that Annapolis is a really fun place to tip a few after the game!

Joe.

Now that's a true college game day atmosphere.

A quick note to the Post Gazette; your time stamp on posts is off by 5 hours.

USC is a joke, they lose to a bottom feeder & get blown out by the only legit team they've played...

but not as big a joke as Penn State who have lost to the only 2 legit teams they've played.  Both at home & the most recent via blow-out where they were essentially shut out (video review showed no proof that Clark ever extended the ball to the plane of the goal line).  That means in their 2 biggest games this season, again both at home, the Lions have scored ONE legit TD, that coming in the 1st of the 8 qtrs. played in those 2 games.  Clark is awful & any comparison of him to Michael Robinson, regarding either talent or especially toughness is absurd, no matter what Joe says!  

As a reward for that outburst of productivity JoePa not only gets to keep his 7 figure salary, but also gets to keep Junior on the payroll as offensive playcaller???

thx,

Disgruntled PSU alum

USC is not a joke. They are one of the great powers of college football. Because they lose a game doesn't make them a joke any more than the Steelers are a joke because they lost to the Chicago Bears. --- Bob Smizik

Bob,

USC is one of college football's great powers, as is Penn State...Penn State has not been one this year, neither has USC!  Why the defense of one over the other & what is so vastly different between the 2, notwithstanding anything that happened more than 2 years ago, which should have no relevance on this year's standings...agreed Bob?

Afterall, they had seasons so similar last year that they faced each other in the Rose Bowl.  More to the point, they have each lost 2 games this season.  In PSU's case both loses were to their 2 toughest foes.  In USC's case one loss came against a previously winless opponent, the other against their toughest foe to date.  Sorry, I fail to see the difference, if anything Penn State lost to 2 better opponents than SC, but I wasn't touting that initially, I at least was fair in my assessment that BOTH are a joke (what I forgot to add was) in '09..

Once again I ask Bob, why the defense of one over the other?  Surely you're not taking into account their not too distant success, when arguing their standing amongst this year's elite, or are you?

There's a reason why they're called the University of Spoiled Children, they just do a better job at boosters supporting the families of their recruits, while being cunning enough not to get caught.  Why do you think Pete Carroll is in no rush to accept a higher paying job & return to the NFL & why would he, when he gets to compete against college teams with pro players?

(Sorry, I never got past the first sentence. Penn State is not junk.  Happy? 

Why would you call two top 25 programs ``junk?'' -- Bob Smizik)

As long as the University continues to allow 82 year old Joe Paterno to control the program, they will continue their slide to mediocrity

It is time for the University to tell Paterno he has to retire.  A whole new coaching staff is needed to end decades of  the "inbreeding".Paterno has fostered.

allablaze,

thx. for that reminder, I meant to, but somehow forgot, to include in my rant, the blatant nepotism that seems to have permeated the Penn State football program, moreso than any other of which I can think.

Beginning with the Johnson clan, how many of this assistant coaches sons (and also at least one daughter, if memory serves) were given free educations?  What a mentor he is, what with the image his son Larry has represented to those that look to him as a role model.  

The list goes on, Paterno Jr., Gantner & the myriad of ex-scholarshiped athletes who's sons have returned to Happy Valley (HAPPY indeed, unfortunately moreso to Big 11 foes than to the Nitts) to reap the same, regardless of whether or not their athletic talent was equal to or even worthy of that same free ride...speaking as a longtime fan & dues paying alum, enough is ENOUGH!

Bob,

I didn't call USC or PSU junk, I said:

"USC is a joke, they lose to a bottom feeder & get blown out by the only legit team they've played...but not as big a joke as Penn State"

JOKE not JUNK, as in it is a JOKE, when a team that lost to a winless team & also was blown out by arguably the only staunch opponent they have faced, is ranked in the top 10!  Likewise, it is a JOKE when a team that lost to both of the only 2 legit teams they've faced, both at home & the most recent via blowout, is ranked in the top 20.  As a PSU alum I assure you there is no bias.