The last laugh goes to Joe Paterno

Gee, Bob, PSU hasn't played a game yet and you proclaim that Paterno is back.  Back from what?  And what are you going to write if PSU, with all its big name recruits, and with Paterno delegating like he never has before, lays a big egg this season?

I know: "Winning isn't a recruiting or coaching thing."

Joe has had the last laugh because he had faith in his coaches, his players and his program.  He may not be perfect, but he has done his best to uphold a high standard that I for one am proud is associated with my school.  Too bad the administration and many PSU fans lacked the same faith and called for resignation when times were tough.  I bet they are now cheering the loudest.

Thank goodness the "old stubborn man" has stuck to his principals.  Perhaps he has a few more lessons still left to teach us.

Joe Paterno is now a logo - like the ornament on the hood of a Mercedes - he's the face of the Penn State program.

Just like the Mercedes logo sells cars, he sells Penn State football.

The logo doesn't make the motor work - Tom Bradley and his coaches do that - but the logo brings in the players, however.

Trample Pitt? Why ever not? What would you rather play in, were you an 18 year-old  - a stadium filled to capacity every weekend, with all the associated hoopla, or the half-filled "rent-a-field" that Pitt uses?

Penn State? The only game in town - the only game within a hundred miles of town, actually.

Pitt has more competition for the sports dollar, and more importantly - more competition for the sports page.

Also, Pittsburgh's a pro town, while State College, Norman, Ann Arbor, Tuscaloosa, and - the worst of the lot - Columbus - are college towns.

One of the few top teams that competes in a big town against pro sports is USC - and thankfully, they whip the snot out of the college boys from Happy Valley.

Also, those southern conferences are now generally  considered to be superior to the Big Ten. The athletic superiority of the black athlete, combined with the higher concentration of black populations in the South, insures that the Big Ten isn't going to change that fact anytime soon.

Penn State is good - very good. But they áint at the top of the pile, praise the Lord.

Pete Carroll is better than Saint Joe.

WE ARE.................PENN STATE

Class of '74!!!

Yer right Bob and it takes some fortitude to admit that you and most of the rest of us were wrong.   Joe Paterno goes on for, who knows how long, to even greater glory.  And just a few years ago I was actually mad at the guy for hangin' around.

By the by, it would be nice to.............

get back to seeing this great blog act more like a blog instead of a chat room?

How about ONE POST PER TOPIC?

Note  that USC does not have to compete with an NFL team while Pitt has to compete with arguably the most beloved  NFL franchise.  Face it, it is fashionable, even with many Pitt alums, to be at Heinz Field on Sunday, not Saturday.

Yes, winning helps, but back in the late 70s / early 80s when Pitt won a national championship and followed by annual Top 10 finishes and major bowl wins, I vivdly remember always being able to purchase a ticket on gameday except when Pitt played ND, WVU or PSU.

Maybe with all of the elite talent coming in Joe might consider scheduling stronger non-conference opponents.

All I can say Bob is  check 2008... PITT 22-Iowa 21

                                                      IOWA-24-PSU-23

Who's better and who's beatin ' who?

Note that there was plenty of reason for consternation about JoePa in the 1st half of this decade.  While PSU's recruiting has improved recently, it was always ranked among the Top 20, yet PSU had a few losing seasons.

Whether it was recruiting different kinds of players (subject of an ESPN 'Outside the Lines'), the improvement of his QB coach, or delegating to his assistants, there was a definite need for a change .. and to his credit (and possibly a behind the scenes ulitmatum) he did change.

That 40-11 record over the past four seasons isn't quite as impressive when you consider the non-conference wins were against teams like Temple, St. Vincent, and Burrell.

Nothing gets the bloggers and talk show crowd going more that a Pitt vs. Penn State thread.  Can't wait to read all the "your-mother-wears-combat-boots" postings.

I root for both teams, and would root for Pitt against PSU, but "pittzit" are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that Pitt was better that Penn State last year on the basis of the Iowa games?  There goes YOUR credibility!

Does any one find it curious that since Joe Pa quit going out on Recruiting Visits to the "Homes" of athletes [he stopped doing this about 3-4 years ago], PSU is getting all these four and five star recruits?  

Has the "Burg" heard that in addition to 8 Homes Games this year against Powers like Akron and Temple there is a chance that the Univ. of Illinois - Staduim Renovation will not be completed in time and the Oct. 3rd Game will be shifted to State College.

BobinFrankiin,   Certainly PSU was the better team last year but don't fool yourself thinking that PSU or the Big 11 is far superior.  The last few years, B11 teams have suffered their share of losses to MAC teams, as well as the BE.  Just two years ago (07), Pitt went to Mich St with an inexpereinced frosh QB and lost by 4 pts not being able to score twice in the last 5 minutes deep in MSU territory;  same year, PSU won a bowl game but lost a 17 pt lead with a senior QB, and lost to mSU and also lost by 4.  BTW, that year the B11 BCS rep, OSU was embarrassed in the bowl game while BE WVU overwhelmed 4th ranked Oklahoma in Fiesta Bowl.

I realize that this is a subjective analysis, but unless they play each other, this is all we ave to go by.

collegesportsfan,

That is not all that we have to go by and you know it.  The next time Pitt wins 10 games, all that we will hear is how Pitt football is back.  10 wins doesn't get you into the discussion of great PSU teams under Paterno.  The standards are not the same and shouldn't be because one is an elite program and the other is an also-ran in the Big East.

And to the Pitt poster above who mentioned the Iowa scores, I can only say:  how was that Sun Bowl?  Offense should be much better without Shady, too.

Bob,

Since you’re clearly trolling for Pitt related comments today, can we get back to the question of whether Cincinnati, er, I mean, Pitt is an “Elite” basketball program despite not having smelled the Final Four in decades?  Really enjoy the delusion of Pitt fans who don’t know their place in the pecking order.

Thanks,

FD

Fuzzy,  If Pitt would have had the same out-of-conference schedule that PSU has, then they would have won 10 games also.

Also, Pitt got the final 8 in basketball ... out of 322 D1 teams. PSU got to the final 8 in football out of 119 D1 teams .... yet you consider PSU an elite program and not Pitt.  

Collegesportsfan,

One time to the Elite 8 is not elite, except in the eyes of Pitt fans.  Sorry.

Also, remind me of Pitt's top out-of-conference schedule - putting aside that the Big East is half as difficult as a down Big 10 - because I don't remember any Alabamas or USCs.  Of course, like most Pittsburghers, I don't follow Pitt any more closely than I follow Robert Morris or Duquesne (i.e., I check the score in the Sunday PG).

Both teams play cupcakes. It's how you get more home games, and thus more $$. You can't tell me that Bowling Green (a team PSU plays every once in a while too) is any better or worse than Coastal Carolina.

This year Pitt plays at Buffalo and at NC State, and hosts ND and Navy.  All 4 of these games can be judged by almost any standard (except for PSU nation) as more difficult than any OOC game that PSU plays.  (and that's pretty pathetic when a game at Buffalo is considered as such.)  You do realize that PSU's OOC schedule was considered 2nd easiest next to Miss St.

And the statement that BE is half as diificult as B11 is only shared by B11 fans.  Remember, B11 is 0 and 4 in their last 4 BCS bowl games, BE is 3 and 1 including the last win over a BCA champ.  Just a few years ago, the BE had 3 teams in final top 12 BCS rankings.  And Indiana, Michigna, Wisconsin, and Illinois have all lost to D2 or MAC teams in past 2-3 years, so this perception that B11 is such a great fb conferernce is very distorted.

Please Bob, this is tooo much!  How soon we forget how USC completely dominated PSU in the Rose Bowl!  The Big 10 was weak last year and you know it!  Michigan was/is rebuilding, OSU went with a frosh QB after they got trounced by USC, Wisconsin was overrated, Illinois was a disappointment, Iowa won, and the rest are all bottom feaders.  Throw in some cup cakes like Coastal Carolina & Temple and you end up with 11 wins.  Which is exactly two more than a Pitt team with no Quarteback was able to produce.

Fuzzy,  one more thing ...  as inferred by your previous email, you PSU fans don't care about Pitt anymore, yet you and Gregenstein and others continue to spend so much time here!!!

Shouldn't you be spending your time on the Esat Lansing sports blogs??

Joe Paterno has been coaching for about a thousand years and he's been able to win exactly two National Championships!  Some how that makes him the greatest coach ever?  What about Bear Bryant who has six national championships and owns a 3-0 record against Paterno (including a win in the 79' Suger Bowl for the NC). The only place in the world where Paterno is considered the greatest coach ever is Pennsylvania.  The rest of the planet would laugh you out of the room if spouted out nosense like that!

Don't forget how Pitt completely dominated Oregon State in the Sun Bowl!  They held them to 3 points!  LOL

collegesportsfan,

You misunderstand, I love driving by Heinz field on a Fall Saturday and wondering if Pitt is playing or if there is a craft fair going on.  I love listening to Pitt fans dream about making a Final Four if, someday, UNC, Duke, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Georgetown, UConn, Michigan State, Villanova, Arizona, Florida, Oklahoma and Gonzaga decide to eliminate their basketball programs.  I love the random anti-Joe venom that comes out whenever Bob posts something remotely positive about PSU (little brothers are so darned cute, you know).  I love a lot about Pitt, I just don't need it.

Fuzzy,  so you had to resort to the Sun Bowl reference ... run out of any other distorted facts?

 I am open-minded enough to recognize that PSU has a very good fb program with a grand tradition and legendary coach.  

On the other hand, you PSU and B11 fans, seem to have this opinion that no other college fb fan shares, that PSU and especially the B11 are elite.  The B11 has to win an important game, like a BCS bowl game against a worthy opponent, to impress people ... something they haven't done in the past 4 or 5 years.  I'll concede that the B11 is a better conference than BE, but at least the BE has won 3 out of their last 4 BCS bowl games, including a win over a 4th ranked opponent as well as the last win over a BCS champ.  

Big 10 is down, no doubt, but it still gets two BCS teams nearly every year.  BE gets one, reluctantly.  When Michigan rebounds, things will improve.  It's cyclical with sound programs and conferences.

Not sure how I distorted anything with respect to the Sun Bowl.  Fabulous game.

Fuzzy,  you call Pitt its little brother yet (1) the last game Pitt-PSU played, big brother was shut-out, (2) in the overall 96 game series, big brother won 53% of the games, and (3) in this current decade, by any anslysis but your own, big brother was not the dominant team.  Remember they had 4 losing seasons including a 3 and 4 loss season.  

Currently, big brother is the better team but you should thank your lucky starts that big borther does not have to compete directly with a storied NFL franchise, and that big brother would draw over 100,00 if it played Juniata.  What else is there to do in Happy Valley?? .. as evidenced by 75,000 attending a scrimmage  (please note that USC drew less than 15,000 for theirs.)

Ok there Sparky Dunlop, and maybe if all of the schools in the SEC, Big 12 and PAC 10 eliminated football you'd be able to win a National Championship again!

You know what I love there Sparky?  I love being stuck in your crappy lame-*** town for a week on business and wondering if there's anything else to do in this hayseed town besides watching PSU football and cow tipping.  110,000 to watch PSU play Coastal Carolina & Temple!!???!!  Lol, that's pretty pathetic, LOL!!!

Pitt's best bowl game in 25+ years is a Fiesta Bowl loss to Utah.  Since 2000, Pitt's record is 64-45 (58.7%) with two no-name bowl wins.

PSU, including the down years, has gone 66-44 (60%), gone to two BCS games and won three bowl games.  How exactly has Pitt been better even during historically bad years for Paterno and PSU?  Exactly.

No clue what attendance has to do with the fact that Pitt is a lesser program and clearly has been for close to 30 years.  Even Tom Ricketts told his kid to go play in the big leagues (hint:  that's not code for that campus in the Oakland ghetto)

Easy to return to "national power" with a schedule designed by a pastry chef.  Temple, Coastal Carolina, etc.  Oh, that's right, the Big 10 beats up on each other every week so they need an easy OOC schedule.

If it's so easy, why doesn't Pitt do it?  Oh, that's right, because Pitt is more of a peer to Temple and Coastal Carolina than to PSU.

Fuzzy, it's funny you mention how Pitt's biggest bowl game was a loss, considering PSU played in the biggest bowl of them all last year and got stomped.  And you're right about having the superior program.  I mean, how can Pitt's recent legacy of Curtis Martin, Larry Fitzgerald, Shady McCoy, and 12-0 match up with the likes of Curtis Enis, Ki-Jana Carter, Joe Jurevicius, and 12 counts of assault and battery?  

As a Pitt grad, it does disturb me to see Penn State's cupcake schedule every year. However, with the BCS in place, the object of the game is to go undefeated and take your shot in one game. Therefore, why would you risk playing a powerhouse non-conference opponent and be eliminated from the BCS in September?? Until a playoff or tournament format is put into place and teams can afford to lose one or even 2 games a year and still have a chance to get to the championship game, this is the way it's going to be.

I love watching this stuff. I went to neither Pitt nor Penn State but I root for both. It's fun watching you folks go at it. It just reinforces how utterly ridiculous it is that there's no longer an annual Penn State vs. Pitt game to settle the debate for the next 12 months.

Fuzzy -- the "craft fair" line is the leading blow in the battle thus far.

As a neutral observer, Penn State is winning the debate.

Please continue.

I don't get how Pitt fans love to use the Iowa comparison from last year in which Pitt won by 1 at HOME, and PSU lost by 3 on the ROAD, but then when you bring up the Oregon State comparison, in which PSU dominated them and Pitt lost the most boring game of all-time to them, Pitt fans say "oh you have to go there, is that all you got?"  I mean it makes no sense.  

As for attendence, I live in DC now and still travel to the Valley for games.  Our alumni actually spend MONEY and TIME to watch their team.  The fact that State College is in the middle of nowhere works against the Pitt argument.  We have to travel a lot further to see our team.  Just like the Pitt football coaches, Pitt fans can't think clearly when they try to argue this.  If you consider yourself a true Pitt fan you would go to the games regardless of how well the team plays.  Competing with the Steelers is not an excuse, because I drive all the way to State College on Saturdays and THEN I still watch the Steelers.  

I am an alum of Pitt so I always hear the Pitt/PSU banter.  But I realized that Pitt sounds too much like a Pirate fan, spitting random stats and scores to make Pitt look decent.  They lost 3-0 in the most boring bowl game I have ever seen!  Seriously, 3-0.  They lost a handful of recruits with that stinker.  You really think Pryor wanted to play to a half empty crowd.  Having other sports markets in town is no excuse either.  The tickets are affordable.  It's just that the return investment (Pitt football) isn't enjoyable.  I am an alum and fan of Pitt, but Penn State is MUCH better.  Penn State doesn't punt with the ball within the 35 yard line let alone twice in the same game.  

Dan, Pitt grad April 07'

Additionally, if you want to look at the athletic program as a whole, PSU has the edge, too.  No PSU fan will ever try to say our basketball program will compare to Pitt's (Especially with the coaches in place.  Dixon is far superior to anything at State).  But, the rest of the Penn State athletic program, brings in more money and championships than Pitt.

Dan--Nice to see a pitt grad that can see clearly.

If PSU is so much better than Pitt, then prove it on the field!  PSU ended the series with PItt, not the other way around!  If Pitt is so weak, then what do you have to lose?  Seems to me it would be an easy "W" for you if what you're saying is true!  What are you afraid of?

66-44 since 2000 = definition of "elite" in the PSU dictionary. LOL, we're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you!!

"No PSU fan will ever try to say our basketball program will compare to Pitt's"  Not true at all!!  I've read comments from numerous PSU people who honestly believe PSU had a better year than Pitt, because they won the NIT.

Also, I personally do not consider Pitt to be an elite program in Basketball or Football (no brainer there).  In fact we had this discussion during the B-Ball season as to whether or not Pitt is an elite Basketball program. it was decided that Pitt wasn't an elite program, but that they could easily become one in they continue to win and this winning produces a couple of final four's and a NC.  

We're not the dilusional fans here, that honor goes to the PSU fans who think that dominating a weak conference and getting blown off the field by USC in the Rose Bowl, some how makes you an elite program.  Get a clue!!

I am a PSU grad (Honest to God) that obviously supports Pitt because they are the local team and uses a lot of local players and I'm very provincial ....  but the main reason I support Pitt is that I am totally put off by the pompous attitudes of PSU followers, and JoePa for that matter.  (the way he handled the U of Miami situation back in the early 90s when he interviewed with them was one of the all-time classless acts.

But darn it, PSU should be a better program than Pitt ... not only do they have substantial more students and alums, they should thank their lucky stars they are located in the middle of nowhere, and oce again, doesn't have to directly compete with one of the most storied pro franchises.

But supporting my disdain for followers of my alma mater, there are numerous examples of this pompous attitude displayed on this blog progression.  It has been already esatblished that the last time Pitt played PSU, PSU was shut out, that PSU has won less than 53% of the total games in the long series, and that PSU has won only 2 more games than Pitt this decade.  

Fuzzy apparently forgot to mention how Pitt dominated Philip Rivers and NC State 34-19 as well as Steven Jackson and Ore St back in 03.  He forgot to mention that in the last six games that Pitt has played Va Tech and BC, that Pitt is 6 and 0 ... meanwhile, in a home and away with BC in those same years (03 and 04), PSU lost both times.

The perception that PSU is a much better team is distorted by the 100,000 plus crowds and recent success .... however, inferring that Pitt is closer to Coastal Carolina than to PSU is one of a total pompous ass.

SteelFan,

I think you meant to say:

PSU is so much better than Pitt.

You should really be more careful, that's a lot of typos for one post.

That "weak" Big Ten Conference is still better than the pathetic Big East.  At least we dominate it.  Pitt can't even win in a joke conference.

As for being elite, no we're not back to that status, but we will be and a lot sooner that Pitt will (which will be never if they don't find coaches who know something about college football)

And, Pitt had their chance to renew the series but passed on it when they didn't like the terms.  Pitt needs PSU more than the other way around.  As you so elegantly pointed out, we attract 110,000 for Coastal Carolina and Temple.  Hell, I think there are more visitor fans at a PSU game than there are total fans at a Pitt home game.

That's right CRKnight .... it's all about the money for PSU.  Why schedule someone half decent when you can bring in the Coastal Carolinas and draw and 100,000+.   And how does PSU repay it's faithful .... by, despite its large student population, increasing the tuition by 9.8% (Pitt's increase was 4%.)   So keep on buying your PSU license plates, logos and T-shirts -- you have so much to be proud of, and a University that really cares about you.  I'm Pen State Proud!!

CRKnight,

You obviously missed this post by the very knowledgable collegesportsfan:

"And the statement that BE is half as diificult as B11 is only shared by B11 fans.  Remember, B11 is 0 and 4 in their last 4 BCS bowl games, BE is 3 and 1 including the last win over a BCA champ.  Just a few years ago, the BE had 3 teams in final top 12 BCS rankings.  And Indiana, Michigna, Wisconsin, and Illinois have all lost to D2 or MAC teams in past 2-3 years, so this perception that B11 is such a great fb conferernce is very distorted."

If you're going to come on here and run your yap, then please get you facts straight first.

collegesportsfan,

Please stop conflating different topics.  The PSU football and basketball programs fund the athletic department, not the entire university.  Tuition hikes are unrelated and show how desparate you are to score a point, any point.  I seriously doubt that you went to PSU; maybe PSU McKeesport, but not University Park.

You're damn right it's about money.  It's a business, what do you expect.  First, that 9.8% was not passed yet because they have to wait on the great Fast Eddie Rendell and the budget.  And more over, Pitt's tuition is not that far behind ours despite PSU has 22 or 23 campuses and over twice the number of students.  To be able to operate so many more locations and manage more students at a tuition that is not that much greater than Pitt's, I would say they are a lot more efficient wouldn't you?

CRKnight,

Plus PSU costs more since it isn't in the ghetto.

Hey I am so happy to see that we are NOT talking about the Pirates !!!!!!!

Thank you SteelFan43,

The B11 certainly has the tradition, the stadiums, the crowds, the TV contract and bowl tie-ins ... but above everything, they have the perception (mostly in their own minds) that the B11 is a good conference.  

Yet, by any analysis by actuall on-the-field results, this is not true.  The last meaningful win that any B11 team had was PSU in the 06 Orange Bowl ... beating a 3-loss fSU team representing a weak ACC that year.  The night before, WVU went into Atlanta and beat the SEC champ, Georgia Bulldogs .. the last time an SEC champ lost in a bowl game.  It was als the last time a B11 team won a BCS bowl,while the BE posted two more BCS bowl wins, including a pasting of 4th-ranked Oklahoma in the 08 Fiesta Bowl. In addition, the year following PSU's win vs FSU, three BE teams (Louisville, Rutgers and WVU) all finished in the top 12 BCS teams.

Yes, last year the B11 was better than BE, but  thatwas the only time in the past few years.

"I seriously doubt that you went to PSU; maybe PSU McKeesport, but not University Park."

And I seriously doubt you're a Pittsburgher!! Maybe a transplant, but not a true Pittsburgher!!

"And, Pitt had their chance to renew the series but passed on it when they didn't like the terms.  Pitt needs PSU more than the other way around."

Oh boy, here we go with the 2 for 1 deal and the Pitt needs PSU more then PSU needs Pitt bull!  Sorry to burst your bubble, but we don't need you!  Notre Dame provides the same results with a fraction of the BS.  

I notice that all of the accomplishments that collegesportsfan associates with the BE, were made by schools that are not Pitt.  Telling, don't you think.

Also, the Big Ten is better than the BE every year and twice as good during leap years.

Bring back Walt and he had a better record vs a tougher big east with vt mia bc

Comparing the conference records among all Big East schools in the four seasons that Dave Wannstedt has been Pitt's head coach.

West Virginia 22-6

Rutgers 17-11

Cincinnati 16-12

Louisville 15-13

South Florida 14-14

Pittsburgh 14-14

UConn 11-17

Syracuse 3-25

Pitt's Big East record in Walt Harris's final four seasons at Pitt: 18-9

Record against out of conference BCS programs:

West Virginia 10-2

Louisville 9-3

South Florida 5-5

Rutgers 4-4

UConn 4-5

Pittsburgh 3-6

Cincinnati 1-5

Syracuse 1-10

Total record against all BCS programs, Big East and non-conference, over the last four seasons:

West Virginia 32-8

Louisville 24-16

Rutgers 21-15

South Florida 19-19

Cincinnati 17-17

Pittsburgh 17-20

UConn 15-22

Syracuse 4-35

From an athletic standpoint, you're right, you don't need us.  You shouldn't need any team.  But from a business standpoint, as I mentioned earlier, Pitt needs all the help it can get.  Imagine having PSU and ND in the same year.  Maybe then it wouldn't look like a "craft fair" on the North Side

SteelFan,

Raised here from a very, very young age.  And I know non-"main campus" prose when I see it.

Also, you need PSU so very much ... we give you the sell out that even ND (last visit) can not provide.  Only PSU and WVU are guaranteed sell outs because of the local alumni bases.  If Pitt simply accepted its place in the world (quarter notch above Temple), all would be well and this "rivalry" (yours, nor ours) would be renewed.

Fuzzy,

Great point how none of the Big East accomplishments have anything to do with Pitt.  Then when you add what Scott2212 posted and Pitt should kiss WVU's ass for giving them one thing to be happy about.  Wow, how bad would the Big East be without WVU?  

I'm from the other side of the State, you know East of the Susquehanna River and I have to admit watching Pitt - PSU fans from Western PA lay in to each other is AWESOME!!!!  I totally miss this rivalry.  It's kind of an after thought to PSU/Pitt alums/fans here.  I have seen some nagging but nothing as visceral as this.

Attendance at stadiums:  Well the argument that Pitt has to compete with the Steelers holds water but Pittsburgh population is what, 10x the size of State College even with school in session.  Beaver Stadium relies on fans coming from all over the state (Philly, the Burgh, Scranton, Altoona), New Jersey, Ohio, NY, VA, Maryland heck I met fans who go to every game who now live in Texas and others from Colorado. It helps to have a bigger alumni association but Pitt still has a much larger city providing its home grown fans a much shorter commute.  In addition you could add that since Penn State draws fans to come from Philly, The Burgh, DC, and NYC isn't it trying to compete for sports page headlines from those NFL franchises much like the Panthers do with the Steelers?

These are difficult questions to settle so I figured I'd throw them out to feed the fire.  Reading this viscious banter is great.

As a Pitt fan, I won't even attempt to debate that Pitt is a better program than PSU.  Not even close, not in the last 5 years.   The records speak for itself not to mention the attention.

But Bob, it is people like you and the rest of the Pittsburgh media who is partly responsible for this.  The constant Big East bashing and Big Ten praising that has obviously rubbed off on the local kids.  Isn't it interesting that Pitt is doing better in recruiting New Jersey than the WPIAL?  While this is on Wannstedt and his record, it is also on the local media for doing its best to diminish Pitt and the Big East.

That being said, Paterno and his assistants are doing a bang up job.  But I hope we all no longer subscribe to the "winning with honor" or whatever crap they used to sell.  The ESPN OTL segment on PSU and its players long list of transgressions indicate that Penn State is no different than many of the other football factories where football trumps all else at their University.  At least with Pitt, you got to give credit to us being discernible consumers.

"If Pitt simply accepted its place in the world (quarter notch above Temple), all would be well and this "rivalry" (yours, nor ours) would be renewed."

What the... are you kidding me!!  This rivalry is ours not yours!!??!!  Then what the F%*k are you doing on here!!  That has got to be one of the most brain-dead statements ever!!! Heck, there' been over 50 comments to this blog post already!  

Also, no true Pittsburgher would ever call Oakland a ghetto!  And wrong Sparky we don't need you!!  We've survived just fine without you and our football program has actually improved since you stopped playing us (the real reason you won't play us anymore)!!  So, you can take your 2 for 1 deal and shove it!!

Well folks, since I just found out that this isn''t a rivalry (LOL) it's time for me to move on...have a good one and remember Penn State sucks!!  

SteelFan,

You've either never been to or left Oakland.  I assure you it is a ghetto.  Perhaps a shade less during the summer.

"Survived" and "improve" must mean 25-22 (i.e., Wanstache's record).  Yep, everything is looking up for Pitt.  Now go work on a new chant that involves PSU and a vulgarity, I can assure you that we won't bother to do the same.

Looking forward to the first Panther Prowl, brings tears to the eyes. Do ya think Pitt can sell out the opener?

I think last season, Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa Hawkeyes had the last laugh. It was truly the greatest game I've ever seen in 20 years of following the Hawkeyes. Very much like Super Bowl XLII. And as for Pitt, they wouldn't have survived a game in the same weather conditions at Kinnick Stadium. They were sure lucky that they got to play in a half empty Heinz Field on a warm sunny day...

Is this really a comparison of PSU vs Pitt.  

Why don't we also discuss Mercedes vs Ford while we are at it.  Pitt has what, 7 or 8 seasons of more than 8 wins since WWII?  Hasn't won a new years bowl game in 25 years?  

Wake me up when his race is close.  

The only people who think it is even close are probably the same people that yell Penn State Sucks as part of a crowd of 3,800 fans during a Friday night loss to Ohio U at home.

WOW

Fuzzy Dunlap

Your use "ghetto' is insulting and stero-typing.

A little about Okalnd from  wikipedia, the on-lin encyclopedia:

       Oakland is the academic, cultural, and healthcare center of Pittsburgh and is Pennsylvania's third largest "Downtown". Only Center City Philadelphia and Downtown Pittsburgh can claim more economic and social activity than Oakland. The neighborhood is urban and diverse and is home to several universities, museums, and hospitals, as well as an abundance of shopping, restaurants, and students. Oakland is home to the Schenley Farms National Historic District which encompasses two city designated historic districts: the mostly residential Schenley Farms Historic District  and the predominantly institutional Oakland Civic Center Historic District.[4] The Pittsburgh Bureau of Fire houses 14 Truck on McKee Place and 10 Engine on Allequippa Street in Oakland.

Oakland is officially divided into four neighborhoods: North Oakland, West Oakland, Central Oakland, and South Oakland. Each section has a unique identity, and offers its own flavor of venues and housing.

. . .  South Oakland was the childhood home of Andy Warhol, and later the residence of fellow pop artist Keith Haring. Haring had his first art show while living in Oakland. NFL Hall of Fame Quarterback Dan Marino was also born in Oakland, not far from Warhol's home. Warhol and Marino actually grew up on the same block and their former houses are merely a few doors down from each other.

. . .

Oakland facts

• The neighborhood is the location of the massive Carnegie cultural complex, originally funded by Andrew Carnegie, which includes the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, Carnegie Museum of Art, Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh, and Carnegie Music Hall.

• Oakland is home to St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Cathedral, sponsor of the annual Greek Food Festival, as well as St. Paul Cathedral, mother church of the Diocese of Pittsburgh.

• Oakland was once the home of numerous professional sports teams, including the Pittsburgh Pirates. They played at now-defunct venues such as the Duquesne Gardens, Pitt Stadium, and Forbes Field. The Pittsburgh Symphony and many touring plays and musical acts performed at the also now-defunct Syria Mosque.

• WQED, Pittsburgh's PBS station and the first community-sponsored television station in the United States, has been located in Oakland since 1954, although it moved from its original building to a new, larger one in 1970. WQED's first building, which had originally been the manse of a neighboring church, is now the Music Building of the University of Pittsburgh's main campus. Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, the nationally syndicated children's show, was taped at WQED's studios in Oakland.

Fuzzy,  I did go to the Shenango Valley Campus in Sharon my first two years, but finished my last 2 years at University Park.

However, after reading all of these blogs, I am wondering if I did graduate from the same schoolas any of these PSU bloggers.  It appears that I and others here have furnished many feasible arguments here that the B11 is way overrated and that PSU is not nearly as superior on the filed as Pitt ... yet my fellow PSU alums seem to rely on their subjective perception that PSU and the B11 are elite.

Since 'perception is reality' I cannot offer much more but again stress that while PSU is a better program than Pitt and that the B11 is a more establsihed league than the BE, the differences are negligible and NOT EVEN CLOSE to what your perceptions are.

Fuzzy, keep sending in your blogs with all the wisecracks but NO supporting MEANINGFUL data if it makes you happy.

Like your support for the Big East being superior to the Big Ten (none) or your support for Pitt being superior to PSU this decade (debunked, by me)?

You have your opinion and I have mine, mine just happens to be based on a long history (including recent history) of superior football.

BobSackomano, your comparison is a good one, the problem is that most Pitt fans would (idiotically) take the Ford over the Mercedes because it's the "local" product (and they don't know any better).  Right, collegesportsfan?

Fuzzy,  yes I guess I would support the Ford if it was made locally and ued parts made in Western PA  (howver, note the US cars are made from 70% foreign parts.)  But if Pitt is a Ford, referring to PSU as a Mercedes is laughable.

In NO way, shape or form did you even come close to debunking the fact the PSU was not superior to Pitt this decade.  In fact, you even admitted that PSU won only two more games.

PSU had 4 losing teams in the 1st half of this decade while Pitt had winning records, won 3 bowl games, and won against common oppenents that PSU lost to from 2000-4 ..not to mention that Pitt won the last match-up in 2000, 12-0.

The second part of the decade belonged to PSU with one year left.

What you ever did to debunk the aforementioned facts was ONCE AGAIN A TOTAL DISTORTED PERCEPTION IN YOUR MIND.  KEEP ON DREAMING

Penn State and Paterno have taken advantage of a weak Big 10 (which is always overrated when going up against other BCS teams not named Syracuse) and an even weaker OOC schedule.  Last year, Penn State only played 5 teams who made a bowl game....5 teams.  The overall winning percentage of the schedule was was under .500 (.493).  By comparison, Pitt played 9 bowl teams last year and the schedule had a winning percentage of .583.

I agree with Smizik on many things including Paterno knowing what he is at this point...being essentially a logo or brand name.  Hall and Bradley are the real minds behind it all.  Paterno is a good coach in the history of football thanks to his longevity and consistency in his teams.  He is not the greatest coach of all time as he is made out to be despite probably leaving the game with the most wins in a career.

GEE BOB... WERE YOU AFRAID YOUR BLOG WAS GETTING A LITTLE TOO SLOW?

IF SO, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING! JUST MENTION JOEPA OR PENN STATE AND THE NITTERS COME RUNNING!

THEY CAN'T RESIST! THEY LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO SHOOT OFF THEIR MOUTHS, STICK OUT THEIR PUFFY CHESTS (AS IF THEY WERE THE DIRECT RESULT OF PSU's SUCCESS)  AND THEN PROCEED TO DEMEAN PITT IN THE PROCESS...

THAT'LL GET TRAFFIC ON THE BLOG EVERY TIME!

Play the damn game! I'm sick of this Penn State BS they don't need or want to play Pitt. They wouldn't be all over this Pittsburgh sports blog if they had already put Pitt in the past. I'm a Pitt fan. I don't care about Penn State.  I could care less if we play them. The comparisons are ridiculous. Oh, Penn State fans, why don't you tell you basketball coach to play Pitt? Afraid?  Move on. I have.

Bottom line is JoPa is afraid to play Pitt. His excuses are lame. They can play Temple and Syracuse home and home but not Pitt? Smiz is my man, but he's wrong here. PSU's rercord is inflated by pathetic non-confernece games and an overrated Big 10 that gets pounded in its BCS game every year. Of course PSU sells out. They'd fill the stadium for a barn raising. There's nothing else to do up there. And the scene is generic with their "white outs" that could be held without the white t-shits, if you know what I mean. Until they put their money up, play and beat Pitt, they're nothing but punks. JoPa's legacy, along with soiling himself on the sidelines, will always be that of a bitter old man who put himself before one of the great rivalries in college football.

Panther4life,

I agree with you. I am dead certain that Joe Paterno is trembling over the prospect of playing a team that he has a 21-7-1 record against. Imagine the pressure and responsibility he must feel when he's forced to fill not just his own stadium, but Pitt's as well.

And I also agree that the 110,000 people that fill Beaver Stadium for every home game do so only because there is nothing else to do in State College.  Considering that maybe 80,000+ of those attendees are coming from outside State College (many from Philadelphia, New York, DC, and -- *gasp* -- Pittsburgh), I'm sure that you agree that there must be nothing going on in any of those places as well.  There must be so little going on in those other places, in fact, that people are willing to drive hundreds of miles on a Saturday so that they arrive early for a noon kickoff.

I consider your points well-reasoned and insightful, and I wish to subscribe to any newsletter you might publish.

You folks have to let it go.  It is over.  Like the overwhelming majority of Penn Staters, I just don't care about playing Pitt.  I enjoy playing Michigan, Ohio State, and Iowa and don't miss the days of playing Pitt and WVU.  To be honest, those were the days of playing cup cakes.

The Big Ten has been good for Penn State, and not just from a football standpoint.  The schools in the Big Ten are similar academically.   There is an abundance of information sharing between the schools.  In the many scientific conferences I attend, I am more apt to run into a colleague from Michigan State or Iowa.  And I know this is a similar experience for those graduating in the numerous academic fields offered at Penn State.

We are not afraid, or worried, the game just doesn’t matter.  Pitt has their big rival, WVU.  They are in their basketball -oriented conference.   Just live with it.  

pittizit, you ought to JUST SHUT UP!

Your bowl game score: Oregon St. 3 Pitt 0

Epic Distaster as termed by a Phildelphia paper.

It's now late in the 2,859 quarter and Pitt still hasn't scored.  Wanny is contemplating a quarterback change!!

LOL!!!!

Why do grown men travel 200 miles, or more, religously, to see Penn State play?

1. They win, AND

2. It's the only game in town, THEREFORE

3. It's an event

I think it's mostly #3 - it's an event - before, during and after the games - the only event in town, no matter where you go in town.

Why don't grown men travel 5 miles to see a Pitt game?

1. They don't win, AND

2. It's not close to being the only game in town, THEREFORE

3. It's not an event

If the Steelers played their home games in Happy Valley for the past 75 years, if the Penguins played their home games in Happy Valley for the past 40 years, if the Pirates...forget that one... then I can't see PSU having quite the following they do.

I can see PSU drawing 110,000 for OSU or UM, but when they draw 110,000 to play Bucknell, then it's not about the game, it's about the event.

Pitt is what it is - a local product, and not the favorite local product, either.

PSU, meanwhile, is the state school of both New Jersey AND Pennsylvania, and the only game in town.

Travel 200 miles to a weekend long event - literally the only event in town, and be almost guaranteed of a win? Yeah, I can see why people go.

Pingback from  Rendell’s Education Funding Plan Rejected |…. The Pennsylvania Budget:  Sanity versus….  | Total Info

I'm a lifelong Pitt fan, didn't go to school at Pitt, but a Pitt fan none theless. Although my first allegiance is towards the Blue and Gold, I have to admit that Paterno has built and cultivated a program that most Pitt fans and alums wish was their own. The more venom and hate you spew towards them, the more you wish you were like them.

schadenfreude...PSU has never drawn 110,000 when it plays Bucknell because it hasn't played Bucknell since 1948 when Beaver Field held less than 30,000 - - ironically the same capacity that would suit Pitt well today for 90% of its home games.

For all the Pitt apologists who like to blame poor attendance for Panther games on the Steelers, the Penguins, Carnegie Museum's latest exhibit and a new orchid display at Phipps Conservatory remember this. Major college football is an EXPORT good. Its attendees typically reside OUTSIDE the local market and travel to see the game.

As for the strength of each program, why don't we look at their records since 1965...the year Paterno was hired as Head Coach at PSU.

Pitt vs BigEast....53-66

PSU vs BigEast...24-7

Pitt vs BigTen...11-13

PSU vs BigTen...89-55

PSU vs Pitt....23-8-1

So not only is PSU better against BigTen teams than Pitt, it's better against BigEast teams than Pitt, and it's better than Pitt head-to-head.

Pingback from  PITT FAIL | Happy Hour Valley

Saturday, 1 a.m. Q: The money vs. winning debate is not resolvable, but it can be put on a more informed

congratulations to dejuan blair, who clearly had the real last laugh.

Regarding "schadenfreude" comments, PSU vs USC previous record to last years Rose Bowl, is 4 wins and 4 losses.  Seems to me that PSU can play with the elite! And we all know the Rose Bowl is a home game for USC, and the Pac 10 has a distinct advantage.

1923: USC 14, Penn State 3

1982: Penn State 26, USC 10

1990: USC 19, Penn State 14

1991: USC 21, Penn State 10

1993: Penn State 21, USC 20

1994: Penn State 38, USC 14

1996: Penn State 24, USC 7

2000: USC 29, Penn State 5

"The first-ever meeting was in the 1923 Rose Bowl game, which USC won 14-3. These teams also met in the 1982 Fiesta Bowl (Penn State 26-10 win) and in the Kickoff Classic in 1996 and 2000.

Below is a look at the eight previous match-ups between USC and Penn State (game day rankings in parentheses):

* Jan. 1, 1923, at Pasadena, Calif. (Rose Bowl): USC 14, Penn State 3 – In the first bowl appearance for either school – as well as the first Rose Bowl played in the present stadium – USC prevailed. The Trojans were a replacement for California, which declined the invitation. USC’s first touchdown was set up by Harold Galloway, who somehow caught a pass at the PSU 2-yard line while he was flat on his back.

The biggest fireworks from this game may have come before it even started. Penn State arrived at the game 45 minutes late after being stranded in traffic – yes, even in 1923 there were traffic jams in and around the Rose Bowl. USC coach Elmer “Gloomy Gus” Henderson claimed that PSU coach Hugo Bedzek delayed his team’s arrival on purpose. Henderson confronted Bedzek outside the locker room and a near brawl ensued. Because of the late start, the game concluded in the moonlight.

* Jan. 1, 1982, at Tempe, Ariz. (Fiesta Bowl): Penn State (7) 26, USC (8) 10 – The Nittany Lions rolled to the win behind the play of RB Curt Warner, who had 145 yards and two touchdowns. He outdueled USC Heisman Trophy-winning RB Marcus Allen, who was held to a season-low 85 yards on 30 carries.

The Penn State defense came up big with five sacks, four interceptions and two fumble recoveries. The Lions also knocked USC QB John Mazur out of the game with a concussion. USC scored its only touchdown on LB Chip Banks’ 20-yard interception return. That tied the game at 7-7. PSU broke the tie on QB Todd Blackledge’s 52-yard touchdown pass to Gregg Garrity. PSU ended up 10-2, while USC was 9-3.

* Sept. 15, 1990, at Los Angeles: USC (6) 19, Penn State 14 – For only the second time in PSU coach Joe Paterno’s 25-year tenure, the Nittany Lions opened a season 0-2. Sophomore QB Todd Marinovich completed 22 of 34 passes for 240 yards and a score. PSU QB Tony Sacca was 16 of 34 passing for 243 yards with one touchdown and two interceptions.

After building a 13-7 halftime lead, USC went up 19-7 on Ricky Ervins’ 1-yard TD run  that capped a 15-play drive. The USC defense later held the Lions on downs inside the 5-yard line to help preserve the win.

* Sept. 14, 1991, at Los Angeles: USC (5) 21, Penn State 10 – USC shrugged off a loss to Memphis State the week before to claim this win. QB Reggie Perry rushed for 52 yards on 14 carries, including his clinching 2-yard touchdown dash with 6:36 left. Perry also threw for 123 yards and a score. USC registered five sacks on Sacca, who ended up 18 of 40 passing for 236 yards with one TD and two interceptions.

* Sept. 11, 1993, at State College, Pa.: Penn State (15) 21, USC 20 – Penn State had everything under control with a 21-7 halftime lead at home. But USC, behind two second-half touchdown passes by QB Rob Johnson, trimmed the gap to 21-20 with 37 seconds left. The Trojans went for two points and the win, but Johnson’s pass fell short incomplete.

* Sept. 10, 1994, at State College, Pa.: Penn State (9) 38, USC (14) 14 – Penn State, on its way to a perfect 12-0 season and No. 2 national finish, jumped out to a 35-0 lead and coasted to the win. The Lions led 14-0 just 2:05 into the game after a 32-yard TD run by RB Ki-Jana Carter and a 44-yard touchdown pass from Kerry Collins to Freddie Scott.

Carter ended up with 119 yards on 17 carries. USC got its first touchdown on Quincy Harrison’s 68-yard interception return. But the Lions sacked Johnson six times in the win.

* Aug. 25, 1996, at East Rutherford, N.J. (Kickoff Classic): Penn State (11) 24, USC (7) 7 – Penn State sophomore RB Curtis Enis had a breakout day with 241 yards and three touchdowns on 27 carries. USC averted the shutout when Chris Claiborne recovered a fumble in the end zone for a touchdown in the final minute.

* Aug. 27, 2000, at East Rutherford, N.J. (Kickoff Classic): USC (15) 29, Penn State (22) 5 – RB Sultan McCullough had 128 yards for the Trojans, while QB Carson Palmer, returning from injury, was 10 of 20 for 87 yards. USC safety Troy Polamalu intercepted a pass from Penn State’s Rashard Casey and returned it 43 yards for a score, while Sandy Palmer returned a blocked punt 64 yards for a USC touchdown. Casey was 7 of 24 passing for 106 yards before being benched in the second quarter."