Pirates give up on present by trading McLouth

The link to this article actually states that the Pirates are giving up on the future.  Was it your intent to say that the organization should give up in general, and simply reflect on the past?

(I don't know what link you are seeing, but the tone of the article is that the Pirates are giving up on the present. -- Bob Smizik)

This is simply an awful trade.  The Pirates traded their most marketable asset for a collection of low ceiling players.

I'd call it a depth move, but that seems like too generous of a sentiment.  Neither pitcher has the stuff to be a top of the rotation guy and Gorkys is a no power outfielder.  With McCutchen in CF, where is Gorkys going to play?

The Pirates aversion to power hitters needs to be addressed. It's almost as upsetting as their aversion to winning.

Can't wait until they trade Doumit for a middle reliever and a slap hitting, low OBP SS who can't field.

When Nate McLouth leads your team in HR and RBI, that's not a good team. Sad to see Nate leave, but it's done and it's time to move. Personally, I'm really excited to see Andrew McCutchen come up and play.

Bob - the Pirates have no 'present'.

Deals like this must be made provided that the Pirates have properly evaluated the three prospects that they are getting in return.

The other two most tradeable Pirates are Maholm and, if he gerts healthy, Doumit. They should be able to get top prospects for both of these players prior to July 31.

Probably every other major league club would also want Zach Duke. I would not want to see him traded, but for the right return, the Pirates have NO untouchables.

No untouchables, exactly.  Nate is a quality ballplayer and an asset in the clubhouse, but he's not all that and a side of fries.  Two pitchers with futures and a CF with OBP potential?  I'll take that.

Wow. A bad year for the Pirates? Watch the individual fine players perform when they bat. But...where's the farm system? Is anybody home in management or they yuppies just there for the thrill of being an owner and considered "management"? Born and raised in Versailles Boro., I look to the Post-Gazette here in AZ on the internet for the sports news in season. Go Penguins! Guess there is little to watch for the Pirates this season.

UGH!

There's no doubt the Pirates have no future in their high minor leagues right now. Look at Altoona. There's no one coming up soon enough to put around McLouth, Duke, Doumit, etc. before they're lost to free agency. Trading everyone of any value from the major league squad makes sense, IF they get a good return. Did they today? It doesn't look promising. One pretty promising pitcher and two 21 year olds with underwhelming stats. Not a lot of confidence in this one.

this pirates team loses because they can't score runs,and now we trade our home run and rbi leader? hunnington's just spinning his wheels.

When Frank Coonelly said "The long-term commitments we have made to core players developed here, both this year and last year, reflect our commitment to build a strong core from within our system.’’, he was being truthful.  But Atlanta came to them and offered their #4 and #7 prospects, in addition to a ML ready starter.  And all they wanted back was a career .261 hitter.  

To call the three guys low ceiling players is inaccurate.

I am so glad that the Pens have done well the past couple years, it really has made it easy to only care about the Pirates for about a month an a half...cannot wait for Steelers training camp!

This pretty convinces me that it isn't worth giving my money to this franchise yet again this year.

1) We should have traded for Atlanta Braves Management team. I have been suggesting we hire em for years to get rid of the idiots before the current idiots

2) I hope the current idiots of our management group know something I don't know. Because we just repeated last years debacle. Less hitting for our rebounding pitching staff. More pressure on don't want to be the man Adam LaRoche, more pressure on our young pitching arms pitching for a bunch of score few runs team...

Hope I am 100% wrong... But based on the past 7 yrs of really watching this team and management decisions. Current management seems to suck and should work for Citibank and AIG, oh wait, they are already run into the ground and are penny stocks... General Motors.... No another one.. Sorry maybe they should work for IRAN or taliban... That would solve a lot of world problems!!! LOL.... They would be outta biz in no time!

Perhaps if McLouth was about to turn 33 years old.  Perhaps if McLouth was up for free agency at the end of the season and his departure was a foregone conclusion.  But none of these apply.   At 27, McLouth is not just the present but also the future.  What is the logic?  What is the thinking?

In order for this trade to be successful, two of the prospects have to be stars.  There is no point in trading a young star today for a future star tomorrow.  Bird in the hand...

This appears to be epically suicidal.  The Bucs could have had McCutchen, McLouth and Jason Bay in teh outfield.  Which by my account would be about as good as the team can produce, maybe even championship caliber as management refers to.  Instead we have Morgan and Moss.  It appears to me that the dogs such as Andy LaRoche and Moss get to keep on trucking since they are the property of the new managment regardless of how they perform.  

Morton started 15 games for the Braves last year and had an ERA of over 6, he should fit in nicely with Snell and company.  McLouth was youg, and in my mind still maturing player who you build around, in return all they got was more filler players.  They should have netted their best prospect.

I also think money was a factor here, nice to dump those million dollar contracts and you can bet the same with Wilson and Laroche which will leave the Bucs with the cheapest lineup in baseball.  This will be the trade that will serve as the poster child for Huntington and crew when they exit, similar to Ramierez and Moskos for Littlefield.  

I think that this is a sign of a good organization.  Your blog a few weeks ago talked about trading players at their higher value like the Marlins.  This is a trade at McLouth's peak value.  I can not pretend to judge if the return is good enough until we see the players in return.  They seem like solid players, but I will reserve judgement until we see them.  I will say that it makes the team even younger and as fans we can only hope that McCutchen is the real deal.  I think it brings some excitement to an otherwise dull team.  

(How does trading your best player increase the level of excitement? -- Bob Smizik)

Does this organization care about its fans?

I've followed this team since I was 11 years old (1974).

Just last night they talked with Nate on the postgame show about how well he was doing.

Little did we know it was his swan song.

This team can't hit home runs and drive in clutch runs now.

What's wrong with paying a few players a big check.

Its beyond comprehension.

I'm thinking about writing a book about the Pirates post 1992.

It should be called "The Pirates: 1993-present Bobbleheads and Fireworks."

It should include a section with just photos.

The game will be to match the face with the name.

How can this city get into this team if there's no committment to at least keep fan favorites around?

I'm so glad Stargell, Clemente, Parker, etc didn't play with this management.

They would have been traded long ago..

Close the book on 2009.

I really thought we could at least compete.

To those who actually think that trades like this are ways to improve a ball club:  you are the people the Pirates bank on coming back to PNC Park year after year no matter what product they put on the field.  At some point, fans need to stand up and say they've had enough and that they won't buy that the Pirates continuous string of salary-dumping trades is to build for the future .  

There is no legitimate reason for this trade.  This trade wasn't made for depth (the Pirates already have a stockpile of back of the rotation starting pitchers), it wasn't made for a top prospect (none are involved), and it certainly wasn't made to keep a respectable team on the field this year.  No, it was made hastily (does anyone honestly believe that the Pirates couldn't have gotten more for Nate from any one of the other teams in baseball in need of a CF) and with little regard for their future (an OF with Morgan, McLouth and McCuthen would've been fun to watch).  

The fact is is that Pirates management is either genuinely negligent in their evaluation of how best to build a winning team or they have a complete lack of respect for their fans.  Either way, they won't be getting a dollar of mine for the rest of my life (and i have been a faithful, ticket-buying fan for years).

How are some of you so sure that we didn't get a good return in this trade? Jesus, give the guys a chance to play and/or develop.

Just because we didn't get their "best prospect" (and why would any team ever trade their best prospect) doesn't mean it's not a good trade.

The cf'er we got was the 'cf'er of the future' for the Braves. That AAA kid seems like he's close to ready to pitch in the majors (so he started bad last year when he was up, big deal, go look at Schilling's first cup of coffee for one example).

Man alive, don't jump yet. Who's to even say that McCutch isn't an upgrade over McLouth? What did McLouth do last year after April and May? Not much...

Face it, with McCutch doing well in AAA, that made an outfielder expendable. McLouth gave us the best return and you can't in any way judge this trade yet.

We traded our only power hitter ( this year, even if Doumit comes back I doubt his power will this year) for pieces we already have. Hernandez projects to Nyjer Morgan ( good speed and defense, no BB, absolutely NO power), the pitchers are Ohlendorf and Hansen.

This is a bad, bad, bad trade for the present, but more importantly it is a bad trade for the future. A team cannot kep acquiring the same pieces over and over and over again. You can only play 3 outfielders at a time and I would bet a steak dinner that Morgan, Hernandez and McCutchen will never hit a combined 35 homers between them in any season.

Finally, given our trading of our best hitter each year, if I were Ryan Doumit, I wouldn't sign a long term lease on an apartment.

All the world loves an optimist, but what has the Pirates new regime done to make anyone believe they can evaluate talent?  Was it the abundance of great prospects they received for Bay and Nady?  How about the brilliant big dollar extension for Snell? Teams who win pennants ALWAYS have several star caliber players.  When you look at the entire Pirates organization, who do you see as legitimate all-star? What are the odds that any of the players acquired for Bay, Nady or McClouth, will be nearly as good as the players they have traded?  It is highly unlikely. The notion that they are building a, "Championship team for the future," is absurd when you look at the depth and quality of young talent in their own division.  

So much for Nate McLouth bobble head night. This team needs to be run out of town. I love them, but this is unacceptable. I'm fed up, as the rest of their ever loyal and patient fan base should be. I may become a permanent Phils fan if I have to put up with another season of this.

As much as I'm shocked and even angry to lose a player of McLouth's numbers, we have to remember that just 14 months ago he was trying to beat out Chris Duffy for playing time.  

To get what Baseball America calls the Braves' No. 4 and No. 7 prospects, plus a guy pitching to a 2.51 ERA with a 7-2 record in Triple-A for a guy who no one could've projected to put up these numbers seems to be a smart move.  Andy LaRoche is playing better and Ohlendorf and Karstens at least gave the Pirates more options for the rotation. Those trades have worked out for the major league team and put good prosspects into the organization that were not there before.

Now McCutchen gets the chance to play with no pressure to replace him with McClouth when he struggles and Moss can try and get himself corrected without the pressure of looking over his shoulder in right. This team is not a winner right now. The organization said the right things when the deals were signed for McClouth, Maholm and Doumit but the minors were so depleted when Huntingdon took over, this is really a no-brainer deal.

Mr. Smizik, I hope the Pirate management is reading all these comments. As a lifelong Pirate fan, my loyalty has never wavered. I have lived away from "the burgh" for 25 years and have continued to support the bucs with my MLB cable fees, traveling to away games all over the country, and  merchandise purchases for myself and my family. I have continued to preach to my son the importance of sticking with your favorite team through thick and thin, but this trade is the contracdiction of all time. We all know that baseball is a business, but this management team has just forfeited the season and any hope of putting a professional baseball team on the field. All I wanted this year was a 82-80 team with a chance to improve neaxt year as well. Thank you Pirate management team for ruining another summer!

BOB

I KNOW YOU CANT STAND THE GUY, BUT MARK MADDEN SAID SOMETHING VERY TRUE ON HIS RADIO SHOW TODAY.  HE WAS COMPARING THE PENS OWNERSHIP TO THE PIRATES, SAYING HOW LEMIEUX IS A HOCKEY GUY AND IT SHOWS BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH HE WANTS TO WIN.  CONTRASTING THAT TO THE PIRATES OWNERSHIP, HE SAID THAT ITS OBVIOUS THAT NUTTING IS A BUSINESS MAN FIRST BECAUSE ALL HE WANTS TO DO IS MAKE MONEY WITHOUT REGARD TO ACTUALLY BALLGAMES.  THIS IS VERY TRUE.  I HAVENT BEEN A PIRATES FAN FOR MANY YEARS AND WITH THE OWNERSHIP GROUP THEY HAVE AND THE COUNTLESS AMOUNT OF POOR DECISIONS THEY HAVE MADE, I CANNOT BELIEVE THEY STILL HAVE ANY FANS LEFT.  ALL THEY DO YEAR AFTER YEAR IS LIE TO PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR DESIRE TO WIN WHEN ITS OBVIOUS THEY COULD CARE LESS.  THE NUTTING FAMILY COMES ACROSS TO ME AS A BUNCH OF USED-CAR SALESMAN, FOREVER USING THE BAIT AND SWITCH APPROACH.

(It is not exactly breaking news that the Penguins have a better management team than the Pirates. Coonelly and Huntington are making the baseball decisions for the Pirates and are the ones who made this trade. Their careers are riding on these deals. I am not comparing them to Mario Lemieux, but Mario is not the only person in the world who wants to win. I think Coonelly and Huntington  have a tremendous desire to win. -- Bob Smizik)

Nate is not a superstar...take away his first half last season and he's a .250 hitter for his career, with 15-20 HR per season power.  Gorkys Hernandez profiles to that.  Locke and Lincoln give the pirates 2 legit SP prospects, and Morton gives them some pitching help now.  

How is giving up a .256 hitter giving up on the season?  Nate's season long slump is a major reason the pirates are losing.  

FACTS

Nate is hitting .256 this season, with 17 extra base hits.  

Adam LaRoche is hitting .243 with 25 extra base hits.  

How good is Nate?

(Here's how good McLouth is. He is fourth among NL outfielders in RBIs, ahead of Ryan Braun, Carlos Beltran and Carlos Lee, to name a few. -- Bob Smizik)

" also think money was a factor here, nice to dump those million dollar contracts and you can bet the same with Wilson and Laroche which will leave the Bucs with the cheapest lineup in baseball.  This will be the trade that will serve as the poster child for Huntington and crew when they exit, similar to Ramierez and Moskos for Littlefield.  "-Mr.C

$ a factor? Ya think!?!

Some very great points. Can't wait to hear Madden and Cookie's thoughts on this.

It may work out that the trade benefits them in the long-term, but it is hard not be extremely disappointment to see a trade of another productive player for the Pirates.  Nate is a solid up-and-coming player, and I wish him the best.  The only way this could be of any benefit to this season's team though is if the players realize that if they play better, they may have a chance to get the next ticket out of town.  I would imagine that Sanchez would be next...I just hope that they don't get rid of Maholm too.

Mr. smizik,

lifelong pirate fan here from las vegas (moved here from carnegie).  WHo can I contact to become an assistant GM for the pirates?  I know I can turn this team around.  Why didn't they get Tommy Hanson, the braves top prospect?  Do you know if they inquired about him?  He is pitching this friday and I'm sure the buccos need all the arms they can get.  Seriously, send my reply to coonelly and huntington, I will do whatever it takes to help that team (except go to cameroon in africa looking for "pitching" prospects that won a reality show).  

Looks like in essence they got 2 guys that MIGHT become decent and a thow in.  I can only hope that the new managment team has some idea about evaluating talent but I am to the point that they're going to have to show me.  I'm past the point of blind faith in the Pirates.  I gave that to Dave Littlefield when he arrived with a good reputation and sounded like a bright guy with a plan.

On the bright side I feel good for McClouth.  Much like Bay he deserves to play for a good organization with a chance to win.  Good luck to him.

"It is not exactly breaking news that the Penguins have a better management team than the Pirates"

Wait a minute, YOU Bob Smizik once said that when it comes to running a bad organization, the Pirates have NOTHING on the Penguins.  

Now you are changing your tune?  

Just admit it.  The Pirates sold the public a bill of goods when PNC Park was built.  They pay $48.5 million over 30 years as part of their funding, and for what?  Broken promises and a minor league team playing at the major league level.  

(I don't recall writing what you said I did, but it is entirely possible. If I wrote it, I wrote it at a time when the Penguins had four straight last-place finishes. I will stand by that. Teams change and so do opinions. Of course the Penguins have a better management team than the Pirates. It's also a different management team that it was when they finished last for four straight years. -- Bob Smizik)

The McLouth trade is the final straw for me. I've been a Pirates fan since the late 60's. My grandfather would listen to every game on his transistor radio, and got me hooked too. I can no longer believe in management's stated "build for the future" strategy. It feels like groundhog day, endlessly  "rebuilding". I feel almost as bad for the players as the fans. McLouth was a baseball bargain, locked up for three years. How much salary is too much? It is apparent to me that the bottom line will always rule in this organization. All the bobbleheads and trinkets that could fit in PNC Park doesn't make up for the shameful treatment of Pirate fans.

keithjfro,

what the hell are you talking about?  How about supporting your attacks with some proof?  Perhaps bob once said that the pirates have nothing on the pens (you fail to provide some actual facts) and so what if he did. At the time, the pirates were a better run organization than the pens were (remember the pens were close to leaving??) and really, that's like comparing who's better looking, sloth or the mask dude.  Get off  your high horse and go complain about the refs from games one and two...

This is my first post to Bob's blog.

As all trades, we have to wait and see what develops. However, has the management of the Pirates gone stupid?  Why trade an everyday player for three (3) count them, three (3) players that may or may not be major league players someday.

OK, I could understand trading Nate for two power hitting everyday players at the corners of the base paths. I don't know about this management team; I truly believe they think my beloved PITTSBURGH PIRATES are a Minor League team with the best ballpark around; they are going to feed the few elite teams in the majors.

What the PITTSBURGH PIRATES need more than anything else is someone, anyone who grew up in Pittsburgh or who played for the Pirates running and owning our team.

I suggest Bob Smizik for owner/operator of the PITTSBURGH PIRATES!!!

The Pirates insult fans year after year with their lame excuses about building for the future.  We go through this every single year and the excuse they give is the same over and over and over:  building for the future, building for the future, building for the future.  Well, we're in the future and the future of Pirates baseball is the same as it ever was:  slim to none and slim has left the room.  This organization has no shame.

rutang,

exactly

jlarugger,

"Why didn't they get Tommy Hanson, the braves top prospect?"

You can't be serious. Do you really think the Braves would give up the top pitching prospect coming up this year in the NL for an OF who hit .276 with 25 dingers and 94 rbi's? Nice numbers, but not even really all-star quality most of the time.

I love Nate, and am skeptical about this trade, but I don't think Nate is as great as everybody is making him out be. He is an everyday OF who puts up average to slightly-above-average numbers.

I am surprised the Pirates didn't somehow include McCutcheon and Alvarez in the deal.

NOTE TO THE NUTTINGS AS LONG AS YOU OWN THIS FRANCHISE, YOU WON'T GET 1 RED CENT FROM ME EVER AGAIN....THERE WAS ABSOLTELY NO REASON FOR THIS TRADE.....TOO TOP IT OFF TO THE HATED BRAVES... THIS IS THE LAST STRAW.....

We've hit rock bottom and like they say the only way is up. This is like a Joe Frazier left hook to the stomach it is hard to stand-up straight and believe you can go on. I know there are more important things in this world, but these two guys (HUNtington and Connelly) have just taken any pleasure out of watching the Pirates. How gullible do they think we are? Instead of McClouth we have an interesting left hander; a athletic looking outfielder and (at best) a middle to an end of a rotation starter. How does this make the Pirates better. I never thought I would actually say this...but (he whose name must no be spoken) Dave Littlefield doesn't look so bad. These two guys (Huntington and Connelly) had the best situation...little shoes to fill (forgive the pun) and they are not doing it. Here we go another 90+ loss season. We will change leadership and startover. I'll be gone and my kids will suffer....I wonder what J.R. is thinking now.He could be filling out a line-up with Nady, Bay and McClouth. Instead...Morgan, McCuthen and Moss. There are more Ms than there is in candy. Oh, and Mark maden was right...I hate to admit it, too.

BRider:  I'm joining you in leaving the Pirates as a fan.  I can't take the pain anymore of an organization that blatantly insults the fans with lame reasons for trading our best players year after year.  

Bob,

Ryan Braun - .953 OPS

Carlos Lee -  .891 OPS

carlos Beltran .998 OPS

Nate is not in the same offensive universe as these players.  Counting stats are soo 1973...

Bob, how can you say Frank and Neal want to win when they repeatedly gut this team out like two carpetbaggers. That logic, frankly, escapes me

(The Bay and Nady trades have worked out reasonably well. Neither player would have signed long-term with the Pirates. In my opinion that is indisputable. Both would have been gone after this season.  In return they have two members of the starting rotation, one [Ohlendorf] pitching well, the other [Karstebs] OK. They have a starting third baseman who is looking very good and a starting right fielder who's not looking so good. I don't know if that constituters gutting a team.

Do you think they want to lose? Their jobs are riding on their success. -- Bob Smizik)

Jeez...what an abomination the Pirates are. Absolutely the worst organization in major leage sports. They actually make the Los Angeles Clippers look good, and THAT'S saying something!! And they are made to appear all the more pathetic by having to share a town wit the Steelers and Penguins, two teams that are models for the way a sports franchise should be operated.

When is Arky Vaughn bobblehead night?

I have not been to a pirate game since 2005 - they are a lousy ownership group.  They do not care about the fans and I will never, I repeat, NEVER go again.  I hope they go out of business.

ESPNs Steve Phillips said on WFNZ here in Charlotte this afternoon that given the curreny economy you would see big players being traded way before the deadline to cut the bottom line. Exhibit A - Nate MClouth. GO PIRATES!!!

I'm sure glad we have the best management team in baseball.

Bob, for the first time in print, I am going to disagree with you.  I may be proven wrong, and the recent history of the Buccos' moves would serve to do just that.  But look at it this way...the only thing the Pirates have an abundance of is outfielders.  McCutchen is ready.  Someone (and someone that another team covets) is expendable, in order to bring some more talent (tradeable talent) into the farm system....I am frustrated.  Everyone is frustrated.  But when push comes to shove, I want the Pirates to be on top again.  Sometimes you need to take a step back  to take two steps forward.  

I think this was a forward thinking and wise decision by the same management team I've ridiculed in several submissions to your blog.

Go Bucs!

Another sad day...giving up an every day starter for prospects shows a team saying we're not in contention for a few years...this would be like the Steelers giving up Ben for a thrid string QB and two seventh round draft picks (and then teh Steelers brass saying, "lots of potential in these 7th round prospects").

The logn term solution is different ownership who wants to invest in a team and not a return on their dollars...please, Mark Cuban, make an offer they can't refuse.

-al-

ENOUGH ALREADY, I am biggest Pirate fan in the world and enough is enough, NATE was not ROBERTO CLEMENTE OR BARRY BONDS, he was an all star on a mediocre team and was the beneficary of a lineup that consisted of BAY , NADY..Listening to the UPROAR, one would think we just dealt a HALL OF FAMER, Newsflash we didnt, I saw Nate's AB the other night when he swung 3 straight times and had no clue as to what was going on, along with an average of 240 , I said he has hit his ceiling, All day long all we hear is ANDREW MC , ANDREW MC, well now we got him..I for one DESPISED management after the BAY,NADY , MARTE transactions, and now they dont look half bad at all..Management has brought to town a possible replacement for D LITTLEFIELDS error ARAMIS RAMIREZ, Along with MOSS , things do look bright , we have more capable arms then we had when we had BAY, NADY..So people please quit acting like this is 5 years and so on , give these guys a chance, I mean seriously NATE was not going back to the ALL STAR GAME, I can tell you that, I appreciate all that he has done, but its time to move on , FUTURE is right before us and we havent even seen what comes about from these 3 players so please hold off on the SALARY DUMP, Because this Pirate Fan here , says the Train must move on and we have new passageners, CHU CHU

YESSSSSSSSSS

LETS GO BUCS

PIRATE FANS SHOULD BOYCOTT THE UPCOMING SERIES WITH THE BRAVES (JUNE 8-11) IN PROTEST OF AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS NO SHAME.

LET'S SET AN ALL TIME LOW FOR ATTENDANCE.  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

At the very least, Huntington could have thrown in that terrible "Jolly Roger" for Chief Noc-A-Homa.  Jolly is approaching his arbitration years.  Could have given them Sauerkraut Saul to sweeten the deal.

The only relevant sentence in your commentary was this: "The Pirates have brought prize prospect Andrew McCutchen up from the minors to take McLouth’s roster spot."

Face facts, guys. Andrew McCutchen is much, much, much more important to this organization than Nate McLouth.

You have unrealistic expectations. What do you want? In three years, the Pirates can't have an outfield of Tabata, McCutchen, Morgan, Hinske, Moss, and McLouth. Someone's gotta go! And guess what? Someone else is gonna have to go when Tabata's ready.

Oh, and also - Nate was not the best player on this team. Come on. He wasn't even the best outfielder on the team.

McClatchy's and Littlefield's jobs were also riding on their success. Nady/Marte deal seems okay. Bay deal 3 of four players, well, need I say more? AN Laroche for Bay, fills one hole, creates another.  

(But they weren't going to be able to re-sign Bay -- Bob Smizik)

Clearly, Mario spoke with NH and FC to beg them to trade that Red Wing lover.

But seriously, all of this negativity is clearly rooted in the realities of our recent history, but this could turn out to be a great move.

McLouth had a ONE good year, and we are getting a fairly good return, based on the Baseball America rankings.

McCutchen is ready to get his shot at the majors, and there needs to be a spot for him to play.

Giving up on the present? What is there to give up on? a slim chance at a .500 record? Believe me I would be thrilled to end the streak, but you can't make decisions that give you a shot at glory tomorrow to be mediocre today.

I bought into the rhetoric during spring training this year and thought that maybe, just maybe, this was the year that the Pirates management wasn't lying and that they really were dedicated to putting a winning team on the field. But today I heard "I told you so" from everyone I told that this was the year the "future" the Pirates' management keeps saying is coming was going to start. Everyone who says this is a good trade hasn't been paying attention. Over the last how many years how many good players have been traded away for prospects? Besides Karstens and Oehlendorf, where are all of these other prospects now? If this trade was a way to bring up McCutcheon, why didn't they put him in right field? They don't play Moss anyway, so why not have a Morgan, McClouth, McCutcheon outfield? The Nutting family clearly has no desire to put a winning team on the field and they obviously don't care that they're alienating the fans. They should have sold the team to Mark Cuban when they had the chance. At least then we'd have an owner who's desire to win couldn't be questioned and we'd be excited for baseball during baseball season and not counting down the days to Steelers training camp.

Trade 'em all!

Let Neal sort em out!

The Pirates have not only given up on the Present, but also the Future -- and they have insulted the Past.

The Pirates have AAA management for a Major League Team, and it is now becoming a joke.  Last year it is Jason (58 RBIs after two months this year) and this year it is Nate -- the best player on the team.  Why would anyone watch the Pirates anymore?  Just an unbelievable trade.  I grew up watching Clemente and Stargell -- this is just sad.   How do I get a refund on my DirecTV package?

Well, at least there is Fantasy Baseball.  I play in a keeper league, and Jason and Nate are still on my team -- and I am in first place.

PTB  

This was a fine trade. McLouth had a great start to the 2008 season but for the past year (June1, 2008 to June 1 2009) he was nothing special. Look at the stats for this period of time. In addition, while he won a gold glove, most folks in the know did not consider him an above average center fielder. McCutcheon was ready and one needs to determine whether he is a 4A player or a major leaguer. The players the Pirates obtained will improve the minor league system and may help at the major league level in time. Best wishes to McLouth but the organization is stronger as a result of this trade.

As this trade was unexpected, time will tell whether it is successful.  I hope each player involved establishes a long fruitful MLB career, especially the Pirates 3, in Pittsburgh!

Braves fans are just as excited about McLouth as we are to lose him... he found his way to a high value and the Pirates found a buyer.  Remember that two years ago, McLouth would not have fetched one of these prospects.  Credit him for his dedication.

The prospects we received in return are regarded as solid.  Remember that a groomed Braves pitching prospect is better than an underdeveloped Pirates pitching prospect - AAA/AA/A doesn't mean bad.

My concern is - now that we have been re-stocking the system, have we effectively overhauled the player development face of the franchise?  (Hopefully we are not just receiving prospects to stall their development).  Time will tell.

Bob, nothing personal, but I will believe that they were not going to be able to sign Bay when they make the ledgers public. They have been crying a poor mouth for time immemorial, all the while silently making themselves one of the most profitable baseball teams out there

• (Their inability to sign Bay had nothing to do with the Pirates lack of money; it had everything to do with Bay's unwillingness to stay here. Do you think his agent would have ever got another client if he allowed Bay to sign with the Pirates without testing free agency? Bay got a fine offer from Boston but turned it down. Why? He want to test free agency.  He wasn't going to sign with the Pirates before seeing what else was out there.  -- Bob Smizik)

Pirates received next to nothing for McClouth.  ESPN thought the Pirates could have gotten much more for McClouth if they had shopped him around and described the players the Pirates received as follows:

Charlie Morton: Failed at the major league level last year.

Jeff Locke:  Repeating A Ball for second year. A few years away.

Gorkys Hernandez:  No power 'speedy' outfielder, a few years away.

BOYCOTT THE PIRATES THIS WEEKEND!!

Bob, make sure you save this article.  Next year, you're gonna write the same one, except you'll be saying "Doumit" instead of "McLouth."  And in 2 years, you'll be saying "McCutcheon" instead of "McLouth."  And in 3 years, there'll be someone else.  It sure seems like the current management is trying to follow in their predecessors' footsteps in making the Pirates the only farm team to play an MLB schedule.

*as we are SAD to lose him.

It doesn't matter because there are no Pirate fans left.

The team is irrelevant, what a waste of  tax payer money.

I can't beleive we own that stadium. Let's get an Irish rugby team to play there.( See Dan Rooney)  Bob, Pittsburgh is a laughing stock in MLB

This trade had nothing to do with money, nor did it involve them giving up on this season, because honestly, there wasn't any hope to begin with.  This has everything to do with the current management continuing to rebuild this organization after the previous regimes reduced it to a pile of rubble.  The ownership cannot afford to shell out big money to free agents (and contrary to what people think, selling it to a billionaire that can is neither feasible nor desirable), and other teams aren't just going to give up their top prospects in a trade.  So, teams like the Pirates have to make moves like this, trading productive and popular players on decent prospects that may or may not pan out.

Are fans' initial reactions to these moves going to be good?  Of course not, and that's completely understandable.  But if you look at the organization as a whole, you'll begin to realize that moves like this are a necessary evil.  Thanks to the previous management our AAA shorstop has been a disaster in the bigs, while our best SS prospect is at least three years away from making it...if he ever does.  Same goes for third base.  Neil Walker's average is putrid, while Pedro Alvarez still needs a lot of work before he starts knocking balls into the Allegheny.  The same holds true for just about every other position in this organization.

This trade came as a shock, and at first I was wondering if it was a good deal.  But it's too early to tell.  These guys might turn into superstars, or they might become duds.  With the economic system in baseball, that's what teams like the Pirates have to do.  If you're true Pirate fans, you don't want the cheap thrill of a single 82 win season; you want a team that can contend for championships year in and year out.  The only way they can do this is through proper (and somewhat lucky) drafting and development, and shrewd transactions that will maintain good production at all levels of the organization.  I have faith the current management can achieve this, but it's not going to happen overnight.

I thought about McClouth being traded earlier in the year when Morgan started performing well and the "glut" of outfielders with the Pirates or in AAA. I see this as a trade of opportunity as the Braves have always had great ptiching--both in the majors and in the minors. I think they should have tried to get a SS or 2B if they have other trades in mind. I liked Nate and had that "emotional tie" to the player....but I see this as a positive--and Nate's numbers aren't where they were last year...and I am not sure they would be again.

I didn't know Dave Littlefield was still running the Pirates. Oh well, 18 years of losing with nooooo end in sight. And in a couple of years Andrew McCutchen will be gone, that is, providing he can hit and his salary goes up. But I guess those Pirate fans who drink the kool-aid will be eagerly awaiting for Jeff Locke, Charlie Morton and Gorkys Hernandez Bobblehead nights.

"At the very least, Huntington could have thrown in that terrible "Jolly Roger" for Chief Noc-A-Homa.  Jolly is approaching his arbitration years.  Could have given them Sauerkraut Saul to sweeten the deal."

Do we get Noc-A-Homa's tipi too? I also think we should Paul Zuvella and Terry Forster in this trade...

Bob, I'm coming into town later this month and I'm hoping to pick up a couple of tix from a scalper at a good price. Based on this trade, what's your prediction for the scalping market index?  (I'm thinking I could get a ducat behind the Bucs' dugout for about 2/3 of face.)  Your thoughts?

And if any of you disenchanted Pirates' fans out there figure to be in Denver anytime soon, go to the park and see the Rockies play. Maybe it'll make you feel better if you see a team that is at least as inept as the Pirates.

FURIOUS and EMBARRASSED!!!!!!  What we have here is another salary dump in exchange for a bucket of baseballs, just like Ramirez in '03.  They always seem to take the first offer that's given to them like a guy that's car shopping and buys the first car he test drives.  Steve Phillips was right when he said GMs around the league covet McLouth and they would have paid a lot more than what the Braves gave them if given the opportunity.  It's a joke.  You get a guy who's failed at the major league level, another rail-thin guy who has NO power, and a single A pitcher who is REPEATING the same level as last year with NO improvement.  All in exchange for an All-Star Gold Glove outfielder leading your team in just about every offensive category.  Sounds an awful lot like '03 to me.  

Big deal, they get McCutchen to the big leagues.  He'll excel for 2-3 years then trade him because anyone worth ANYTHING gets traded by the Pirates because they'll never re-sign.  So, the endless cycle continues.  What's worse is they had McLouth signed for another 3 years.  What a knee-jerk reaction by Huntington and Coonelly.  I don't know who's worse now, them or the Littleworth regime.  

On top of everything else, they had to trade him to the BRAVES.  I hate the BRAVES!!!!!  Every time they deal with them, they get screwed, and they did again tonight.  Got the wool pulled over their eyes.  This deal required NO Hanson and NO Schaffer.  I'm sure Atlanta is just laughing at the Pirates right now, just like they do after every deal with them.  Great deal for Denny Neagle.  Great trade for LaRoche.  Brilliant!!!!  

The next thing you'll see is another Big Market vulture, the Yankees, trading for Doumit, for another bucket of baseballs once Posada is through this year or next.  Mark my words.  Doumit will be a Yankee within the next 12 months.  It'll be a great deal.  The backbone of the last one was this Tabata kid who underachieves and can never stay healthy.  BRILLIANT!!!

It's apparent that the Nutting/Coonelly/Huntington regime is the same as the McClatchy/Littleworth regime.  Either they have no clue about trades or they just care about the financial bottom line and not at all about winning.  '09, '10, '11, and '12 are gone!!!!

Wait a minute.  I just figured it out.  They want to be SO bad over the next 2 years that they can draft that sophomore HS phenom that SI went so crazy about.  They weren't bad enough to get the SDSU kid, so they must want to get bad enough to get the SI kid.  I get it now.  BRILLIANT!!!!  I look forward to 2018, our next winning season.

In assessing McLouth’s production since the All-Star break last season, you have to keep in mind the protection in the lineup that was lost when Bay and Nady were traded. Bay is a better player than McLouth, but he’s not light years better! All players benefit from playing with a better supporting cast (see Bay 2009). You don’t think that Bonilla benefited from hitting in front of Bonds?? McLouth may not be a great player, but I think his second-half 2008 and 2009 numbers are pretty solid considering the cast playing around him.

Personally, I think this return is far more quantity than quality. This management team seems to subscribe to the belief that you should amass as much potential as possible, hoping that you get more hits than misses. Neither the trades of Bay and Nady last year, nor this trade, landed anywhere near a top prospect, and no trades in the near future will do so.

I haven’t been to PNC in years, and I was a season ticket holder the first couple of seasons. I won’t give a dime until after I see at least a .500 season. I have no desire for bobbleheads, artery-clogging buffets, fireworks, or any of the other promotions that draw the lemmings to the sea. All I want is a winning ballclub, and that folks is several years away … at the least.

Bob,

Do you think that playing under 500 ball now is going to build a fan base currently.  The Pirates need to think about playing for the future and while I don't like seeing the team lose, Nate alone isn't the answer  

If McCuth is ready to play, play him and build up your farm system with two more arms plus an additional young outfielder.  

While I like Nate, he is not going to put the Bucs over the top anytime soon.

How sad. I didn't think that the puppet managment team could sink any lower than they did last year when they dismantled arguably the best offensive outfield in all of baseball. But I was wrong--they went lower today. It's not  like we had that much to hang onto anyway--but Nate McLouth certainly was the centerpiece--and now he's gone. The sad truth is that the owners' greed and avarice simply overwhelm logic, reason and good sense. I have loved this team for all of my 58 years, and sadly it is clear that now I must stop. For me it now comes down to an utter lack of respect by the owners for the fans or for the City of Pittsburgh--the owners simply have no intention of winning--they are not even trying--there's too much money to be made by being the feeder team for the rest of the league while pocketing the enormous "luxury tax" dollars together with the fans' hard-earned money for tickets, concessions and gear. The current owners in fact are simply perpetuating the fraud on the fans of Pittsburgh which was originally conceived and executed by McClatchy --spewing his "hometown boy" banter and publicizing his  memorable "Bucs' Fan Bill of Rights" (anyone remember that?) to win the stadium vote--and Coonelly and Huntington should be ashamed to be a part of it. So here we are again--victims of yet another grab for money. So sad--after 58 years I have no baseball team to root for--and regrettably I likely never will. However,  I do have many, many years of great Pirate memories that those greedy souless bankers can't take away from me--and that makes me richer than they ever will be. Bob--as always, thanks for taking a stand with your blog!

Bob,

I would like to know if this means the Pirates are more likely to sign the kid their singing folk songs about in the hills of the Dominican Republic?  Will they also pick and sign a high end #1 draft pick?  Huntington was saying the other day on the telecast if you save money in one area your free to spend it on other areas of the ball club.  None of the arbitration years of the players we received in return are bought out.  They must have some money to spend.  I am no expert but what seems to seperate the Marlins from the Pirates is that when the Marlins make these kind of trades the people they get in return help their club right away.  

Bob,

I would like to know if this means the Pirates are more likely to sign the kid their singing folk songs about in the hills of the Dominican Republic?  Will they also pick and sign a high end #1 draft pick?  Huntington was saying the other day on the telecast if you save money in one area your free to spend it on other areas of the ball club.  None of the arbitration years of the players we received in return are bought out.  They must have some money to spend.  I am no expert but what seems to seperate the Marlins from the Pirates is that when the Marlins make these kind of trades the people they get in return help their club right away.  

Why, then, do other teams routinely re-sign their free agents? Here, with Mc Louth (for a change), we sign one, a home-grown one at that and look what happens. You have to know for a fact that the word is out among agents and players about the PBC and their demonstrated  lack of willingness to part with a buck.

Can someone explain to me why it is accepted as indisputable fact that the Pirates "wouldn't have been able to sign Bay & Nady" as Mr. Smizik & others would like to have us believe?  It infuriates me that the media gives the Nuttings a free pass as if the owners have no say in who the sign or don't sign.  I'll buy that Nady probably would have been gone but he still had a year on his contract and nothing in Bay's history lead me to believe that he would have been undoubtedly gone at the end of his contract.

I'd also like to take umbrage with the idea that Coonley & Huntington's job security is based on putting a winner on the field.  The Nuttings will rate their service based on their ability to 1) keep the coffers full 2) sell the hope that there is hope.

The coffers were full with McClatchy and Littlefield running the team and they were fired. Why couldn't the same thing happen to Huntington and Coonelly?

Do you really think Bay's agent would have allowed him to sign a contract with the Pirates without testing free agency? He'd never get another client if he did that. It is a dream that Bay wanted to stay here. He's already rejected an offer from Boston. He's like everyone else. He wants to win but more than that he wants to make as much money as he can. He could achieve neither of those goals in Pittsburgh, which is why he would not have signed here.-- Bob Smizik)

I was hoping they would find a team that would take Adam LaRoche before trading McLouth. The reasoning is that the catching duo works both offensively as well as defensively. Doumit could be moved to 1B once he returns. A move that would extend his career.

The Three Musketeers; Morgan, McCutchen and Moss have promise. We all knew that McCutchen would be called up some time this season. Most of us expected him to replace Nyger. But Nyger has shown that he has a place on this ball club. If he ever masters the art of bunting, he will be a monster. The power we lost in McLouth will be replaced by Moss and Monroe.  

Where they place McCutchen in the order will be interesting. He will either bat 2nd with Sanchez holding the 3 spot or 8th with Wilson moving to the 2 hole and Sanchez at the 3 hole. He could also bat 9th with the pitcher in the 8 spot. Batting in the 9 hole, Nyer would see more fast balls should McCutchen reach base.

I am not sure Snell will recover from the constant change in pitching coaches he has had over the past 4 years. I expect him to be moved to the bullpen or the minors, so trading for Morton a right hander makes sense. Maybe they package him with Adam LaRoche for a potential SS with some pop.

Hopefully, many of your readers caught the FSN Special during toight's rainout on how the 1960 World Champions were built and the 1990-92 Division Champs were dismantled. Give this management team some time. I expect them to do much better than the previous administration that didn't have a clue. They are adding bodies to the depleted minor league system and moving those who have been producing up to the majors (McCutchen, Gorzo, Jackson).

I am beginning to believe in Russell and Kerrigan and the patience and confidence they are showing. the Buc will not finish in last place. They will get hot in June, July and August. stay ahead of the Astros and possibly catch the Reds. Our starting pitching is strong and the bullpen will catch up. To win they will need to play like the Dodgers of the mid to late 60's - strong starting pitching, strong defense, speed and timely hitting.  

Look, there were 37,000 at Sky-Blast on Saturday when the Penguins were also on at the same time.  You think Nutting gives two-hoots about winning when the masses continue to fill the stadium for bobbleheads, fireworks, and pierogie races?

(They also had 18,000 (tickets sold, not people in the house) the night before with a double promotion. Less than that two days later (Sunday). Attendance has dropped every year since the All-Star game and will continue to drop. -- Bob Smizik)

I hate this team.  All they have done is disappoint since 1993 And before that, very lean years in the 1980s...I loved this team once.  Baseball was my favorite sport once, even more than the Steelers.  And this organization just rips it apart year after year after year.  Now I just cry.

why bother to play the games.  What is the point?  The organization is not in it to win. They are in it to control costs.  If they forfeit the season, they could control a lot of costs.  And, end the misery that wears the pirate uniform.  Forfeit the season!!!!!  

Iv'e never seen so many gray men in my life.

Put the kids to bed and the pets in the house!

Close the windows and lock all the doors!

It's the invasion of the gray men!

Dear God, Help us all!

Let's make one thing perfectly clear, there was no urgency in trading Nate. Not only was he many years away from free agency we had cost certainty with a multi year deal already inked. If that return was too good to pass up someone in the FO is on LSD. And for those of you who think Nate has peaked and is a career .256 hitter watch him now. He was scalding hot last year before the team was gutted and he had no protection behind him. Before that the wisdom of Jim Tracy had him platooning with Duffy and Nate batted against tough lefties to protect Duffy.

   This front office group is laughable. If you think the "haul" we got back for Jason "AL MVP" Bay was significant you are an idiot. Hanson and Moss are worthless and Andy La although hitting for decent average has no power, no speed and is marginal in hte field. And the return for Marte and Nady is just as bad. I know people will say that is Nady is on the DL and MArte has pitched badly but when traded they were both very hot commodities.  Ohlendorf has shown flashes but Tabata has way to many issues to be nothing but  a crap shoot, and Karstens is the new Josh Fogg. I am 52 and for 51 years I was as diehard a Pirates fan as there ever was, I still root for them but refuse to ever part with 1 dollar of cash for a ticked ever again.I see them when htey come to Ca and when in the Burgh I scalp a ticket because that money has already foolishly been given to the Nuttig's, they will never get another dollar from me. Watch Nate tear it up for the next decade in Atlanta.  

Do the Pirates executives care at all about the fan base. They will finish below the Nats as the worst team in the NL. At least the Nats signed Dunn to try to bring in the fans. The Pirates sign no one and trade their best young players. It’s as if they don't care and I no longer care. I am a 40 year Pirates fan that has now given up on this team. Spending close to 20 years now to see the team have a winning season is too long. It is an insult for me to ever spend money to see this team play another game. McCutchen has not shown enough to me. Appears another high round blown pick, just like all the other over the last 20 years. This team is a joke and the worst in baseball. Now they trade probably their best young player for three more stiffs. I figure they will sign another middle reliever with their #1 pick, passing up anyone who will ever make the majors. I'm surprised I even wasted this much time writing this message about such a loser team and ownership.

Ahhh...memories of Aramis Ramirez! He took his 30-40 HR's for the nxt 15 years to the Cubs!

Great point Pghboyinca, McClouth wasn't breaking the bank this year and if the Pirates were truly committed to a winning team they could have at least waited till we were out of the playoff race--McClouth's value was only going to increase as the season went on.  

There was no reason to give up on this season.  We're just 6 games out of 1st, 4 games under .500, with a pretty decent pitching staff if you ask me--they had the lowest ERA in baseball a couple weeks into the season and are still in the top half, even after that horrible 10 of 11 losing streak.  

We seem to have righted the ship the last couple weeks--could sweep the Mets tomorrow and we're hit with this bombshell.  There was no urgency in trading McClouth. And I'm disgusted at seeing how the new management team, as Bob Smizik, have directly contradicted what they said about committment when McClouth signed the contract just this last February.  Despicable.  

The saddest part about this move is that it means an ENTIRE GENERATION will miss out on experiencing winning baseball in a city that is rich in baseball heritage.  My two little girls (12 and 10) will most likely never see a NLCS game or World Series in PNC Park.  The promises of a new ball park, endless rebuilding, and the hope of spring training ring hollow in my ears and the city is now numb to their existence.  I pray for twenty years of above normal temperatures in the winter and may the slopes of Seven Springs remain green all year round!  

Here's hoping everyone *** and moaning about this trade, mgmt, team, etc, goes away and stays away.

I'm bothered to see so many people up in arms about this.  Did anyone really think the Pirates, even if they somehow broke .500 this season, would have a chance?  I can't fault management for making a trade like this until I see a minor league system that actually has some real depth.  And despite the constant shouts of "I'm done with this organization" (hint: if you're posting to a blog about it, you're not done) the fact is that our minor league system has improved since this new regime took over.  And we've seen time after time that if you don't have the money to sign the Mark Texiera's of the world, then you can still become a winning team by having a deep organization.

I for one will call leave work early tomorrow to head on over to PNC Park and welcome Cutch to Pittsburgh.  I can't wait to see what he can do.

I remember the Cardinals had a pretty good team under Whitey Herzog built around speed and defense.  I believe thier number three hitter was Tommy Herr who did not exactly excell when it came to the power department, however that team did have Jack Clark batting in the four slot.  With Willie Mcgee, Lonnie Smith, Ozzie Smith, and Vince Coleman that was one of the more exciting teams in baseball to watch.    With McCutchen, Morgan, and Moss in the outfield and Sanchez playing the role of Herr at Second it could be Huntington is trying to build a Pirates club similar to the Whitey Herzog Cardinals,   It is also possible that the McLouth trade was a salary dump and the Pirates management does not care about winning ballgames.  

I coudln't agree more jpg777

I liked it better when the Pirates just played below average ball and didn't trade anybody. At least then I didn't have to sift through all of the hate mail posted to the boards.

great point made earlier-why the rush to do this deal so early before the deadline....the media needs to ask---once they got the offer for nate did they shop him to other teams too so they could levrage the braves interest for a better deal/

Bob Smizik,

I know you're going to say that Bob Nutting is not involved in this trade, yet another "smells like dump salary" deal, but he is.  Yes, Coonely and Huntington made the trade, but they work for an owner who remains all talk and no "show me the money".

Both the Pirates present and future have been damaged by this trade. And all because the owner, Bob Nutting is stuck at 50 million payroll.   I'll believe Bob Nutting spending 75 million and up when I see it, which I believe will be - never!

This Pirate management team is merely a reflection of the owner, Bob Nutting.  Safe moves for them are trading established stars for minor leaguers who might be major leaguers someday.  So Bob Nutting keeps making money until he sells the team.  And Coonely and Huntington get to keep their jobs a little longer.

But we Pirate fans be dammed!

I see comments to the effect that the Pirates couldn't afford to sign so-and-so. Let's be clear, it's not a question of not being able to afford it. I do not accept that the PBC must maintain the salary level they do, not when other even smaller market teams spend considerably more. The payroll should be in the $80-90 million range, easily. If tgey really can't afford that then they should get out now because they will never ever win. The Nuttings choose to not increase payroll because they want to continue to turn a yearly profit and pay down debt so they can ultimately turn the big profit should they someday decide to sell the team. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I really think this team will never win under this ownership and their hired lackeys in management.

Mr. Smizik, in evaluating Nate McLouth, let's not rely on RBI much. Bobby Valentine got at least one thing right in his life when he called it a "team stat." Having grown up in a region and a time when John Mayberry Sr. was the Royals first baseman, I remember one 1970s summer when he had about 82 RBI by July 4 and a .235 batting average. How did that happen? Hal McRae and George Brett were hitting ahead of him. RBI come with opportunities like those two provided. If we miss Nate, let's miss him because we like his OBP and slugging percentage. I admit, I haven't looked up either for a couple weeks, so I don't know where he stands.

Bob, seeing your opinion on this trade makes me feel better, considering how rarely you seem to know what you're talking about when it comes to baseball.

McLouth was only an All-Star because MLB requires one from each team, otherwise he would've had to watch on TV. He seems like a pretty stand-up guy, but untochable, cornerstone or All-Star isn't something that belongs in the same sentence with him. For to long we kept guys too long & got nothing in return. Nutting is in the top 3 of worst owners in sports, but let's give Huntington and Coonelly some time. I believe what their trying is the proper way to do things. I just hope they can read talent when they see it. I don't understand the nitwits who think you can get the other teams no. 1 prospect for someone like Nate. How much uproar would there be if we traded Alverez for Melky Cabera.

tonight, during a pirates rain delay, i watched a show on fsn detailing the '91 bucs, who were first in the league in offense, second in pitching and won the division by 14 games.

it seemed like miles away.  so far away, i almost wanted to cry for mommy.

in the playoffs that year, the bucs came back home up 3 games to 2, leading the young-but-nobody braves, a team which, until that season, had been loving the cellar for quite a while.

the pirates never scored another run that playoff, and the braves have basically never stopped winning.  and forgetting (please, can we?) the '92 season, the bucs have never stopped losing, since.

and so now, finally, as just today the ghost of glavine/smotlz/avery is finally put to rest, the pirates decide to give away their best player in order to give rebirth to the team that burried them low, so many years ago??

irony?  ha.  only if it wasn't so patheticly stupid.

the chancellor

What a disgrace this team has become. I have been following the Pirates since 1970 and have continued to do so even though I have moved out of Pittsburgh. I live in the New York Metro area and have exhausted all of my energy trying to defend this pitiful organization to Met & Yankee fans...but this horrible trade is the final straw.  The local media refer to them as the "lowly Pirates"...a "third rate team & organization"...and they are right.  We have no present and therefore have no future. The Pirates have been "rebuilding" and "investing in the future" and "blah...blah...blah" for 17 years now!!!  Enough is enough.  When will Major League Baseball step in, oust the morons running the team and take over...a baseball bailout is long overdue in Pittsburgh. There is absolutely no credibility or accountability in the Pirate Front Office.  A once proud Pirate organization is now the laughing stock of not just baseball...but all professional sports.  Mario stepped in and saved the Penguins...who'll save the Pirates before it's too late???  Sell the team to someone that wants to win...knows what it takes to build a winner...and won't mortgage the future just to look busy and justify their position in the front office.  In the past 12 months Pirate fans have been lied to by ownership repeatedly and robbed by the Red Sox (Jason Bay), Yankees (Xavier Nady) and now the Braves (Nate McLouth)...Who's next to go? 17 years of Minor League Baseball in Pittsburgh is enough already...put a professional team back in PNC Park.

Wow, 93 comments so far...

Pirate Nation is not pleased.

I'm not terribly surprised by the trade. This is how the Pirates do business. Year after year after year, it's the same trades for the same reasons. How very pointless it is being a Bucco fan.

Not that I care anymore, but talk about the "kid in the Dominican Republic" has a way too distant payoff for me to be interested (it's like those 2 Indian pitchers the Pirates are teaching to pitch somewhere).  The DR kid is what 16?  So we'd have to hope for another 4 or 5 years.

That seems to be the Pirates strategy:  sell hope, and the longer we can be convinced to wait, the better.  If a player gives us hope too early, like McClouth did, get rid of him soon as possible.  

If the Pirates are going to trade away all their decent players and leave us with a mnor league team, then have the decency to lower beer prices.   The only way i am going to be able to watch this team is when i  am smashed out of my mind

Take the money the Pirates willl save on McClouths contract and sign that Dominican player Sano.  If he is on the same level as Pedro Al\verez at 16 years of age which the scoutes say he is. I think it would be a good gamble.  After all this losing, what could we possibly lose!!!!

The last straw for me was the Aramis Ramirez trade LONG ago. Don't the current fans realize it's just a never-ending cycle? Whenever people speak about the Pirates to me, I think only of the Somalia pirates.

MLB and the Pirates will never get a cent of my money with the way things are (steroids, no salary cap, crap owners/management). Thanks for reading my rage!!

I think the Pirates should make a goal of having a losing season.  With how incompetent management is they would fail and thus have a winning season

Your Pittsburgh Pirates.  Rebuilding for the future.  Since 1993.

Not a Pirates fan, but this is an absolute atrocity of a businessman. In the past few weeks Nutting has been shaving jobs in his newspaper business too in order to bolster the bottom line. This wreaks of the same stuff.

Just low class penny pinching. He doesn't care about the quality of his newspapers and he certainly doesn't care about the quality of his baseball team.

Unfortunately the incompetence is on purpose since it pays well.

After years of being disappointed, I am officially not a Pirates fan.  I am now a fan of every other MLB team, because they know how to run baseball teams.  Man, I can't wait to see my new favorite team, the Seattle Mariners.  Neal Huntington has no idea what he is doing.  Seriously, nobody agrees with your decision.  Nobody.  What makes you an accurate assessor of talent, Neal?  If you trade away your best player every year your team will never be good.  As long as Neal Huntington is running the Pirates, they're going to suck.  So Jack, Adam, Brandon, Paul, Andy - you need to start finding a way to get the hell out of town, you guys deserve to play for a better team.  Seriously, what the hell Neal?  Why can't you learn from the people who are successful at running sports teams?  "Big Ben is having a great year - lets trade him to the Jets for some rookies."  "Sidney Crosby is the best player in hockey.  Lets trade him to the freaking Predators for some minor leaguers."  The Steelers and the Pens would never let that happen. Why??? Because Shero and Rooney have a freaking brain.  That's why the Steelers won the Super Bowl and the Pens are in the Finals.  They define their "core" and they don't f*** with it.  If you want a better team, find a better manager.  John Russell, Mr. 58-88 record in the minor leagues is your choice?  What a joke.  Neal Huntington has the brain of Spongebob Squarepants and kind of looks like him too.  Neal should demote himself from general manager to a position below the lemonade guy (everyone knows who I'm talking about).  

I thought I had long passed the point where any move would surprise me that the Pirates front office regime pulled off. I have to admit that I almost fell off the couch when I read this on the bottom of the ESPN screen this afternoon.

I don't have the time or space to address all my opinions here.

Unfortunately, these opinions are 17 years long.

Just let me say that it is "high time" that someone with money goes into those offices in PNC Park, signs off on a check to purchase the Pirates....and clears every single one of these sniveling, low-corporate scheisters out of the vicinity forever more.

As a lifetime Pirate fan, I am SO sick of this type of baloney!

I don't want to hear Huntington/Coonelly/Nutting with their asinine quotes of "we're a better organization now", etc.

It's complete and total garbage, and anyone over the age of five knows it.

These guys are nuts!....and they're in charge of a MLB team?!

If you HAD to trade Nate McLouth, you then make sure that you get tremendous value.

But as usual, they have traded him for future journeymen at best.

Write it down here....These guys from the Braves won't amount to a hill of beans.

I KNEW they would do something stupid & selfish like this when they decided to bring McCutcheon up from Triple A!

They can't acumulate good players & depth like a normal sports organization. They have to add by elimination...Because they are cheats and selfish losers of the worst kind.

They have made monkey's out of every Pirate fan that ever lived.

I'm sick to death of them.

How does this deal make the pirates better?  What ML player will sign here?  Players they do sign to get cost certainty during their arbitration years know they are just waiting for their time to expire before they could go someplace else and have a chance to win.  What incentive would their number 1 pick have to sign this year, besides holding out for a large payday?

Sounds like the clubhouse is no longer buying what mgmt is selling, so let the yard sale begin...

Bob,

108 comments - must be a record.

There is a simmering undercurrent of Pirates fans.

Angry, potentially unstable, Pirates fans.

Not sure you'd get 108 comments if the Steelers traded Ben to the Browns for a 7th rounder and cash.

People still care!

Say one of these "prospects" turn out to be a quality major leaguer. Its not going to matter, he'll just be traded for more "prospects", rinse, repeat.

The Onion was right, PNC park should have packed its bags for another city years ago.

www.theonion.com/.../50814

Its to the point that I now feel sorry for our AAA club for getting saddled with such middling players. What did they ever do to deserve this?

www.sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Number 30 and dropping fast.......wait ,you can't be lower than 30....last place.

A boycott sounds outstanding!! I cant imagine what is going through the minds of the players in the locker room. They have to be miserable playing for such a pathetic franchise.

Pittsburgh Pirates are America's Farm Team.  Just when you think you have a team you can identify with Pirates management pulls the rug out from under you.  It seems like any Pirate player that is of championship quality is only being groomed to be a Brave or a Yankee.  At least the Pirates will be able to boast they have the nicest minor league park in the country. Unfortunately the fans will still be expected to pay major league ticket prices.

I can only wish that the Pirates gave up on the present over 10 years ago before the ridiculous contracts with Young, Mears, Bell and the many others who were to provide a plan for being competitive.

For once, there may finally be this plan that has been promised to us for so long ....  who cares if we win 60 games this year or 72?  

The talking heads on ESPN said that the Pirates would have gotten much more if they peddled Nate to all of baseball. I believe that is true. Last year I made a commitment not to buy tickets to a Pirate game until they showed a desire to field a good team. This move wil extend that commitment for several years. If people did not spend money on the current team then they would have to sell and then maybe real baseball men will take over. People should refuse to go to games and send that message to the Nuttings.

The mANGEMENT TEAM ARE STUPID AND HAVE NO PIRATE HISTORY OF LOSING SEASONS AND ARE THE WORST IN MLB , ATANTA IS LAUGHING on how they stolen Nate. Pirate fans should never attend another game and have picketts ouside to fire connally, huntington and john russell. All three are idots SO PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO THEM. Also to the owner Nutting needs to know how stupid they are!!!!!! Thank yOU Bob for writing the truth and not hedging likeDieon.

Well some things never change... at least not in the last 16 years.  Here's a couple of quotes on this trade made by Pirate management that proves how much things stay the same.  "We're out to win a Championship". - Neal Huntington.  "It's not about money." - Frank Coonelly.  Oh thanks for reminding us guys, we forgot.  We thought it was all about ineptitude and boredom.

I think the thing that really upsets the Pirate fans, is not so much the trading of a star player, but the perception that the Pirates were ripped off in the deal.

Teams like Minnesota, Oakland and Texas trade star players all the time, however they seem to get top prospects in return. The Pirates received the Braves third best OF prospect and their third and fourth best pitchers for McLouth. Not even the best prospects in their postiions

That is what upsets the fans...

I believe ESPN is correct when they said that the Pirates could have gotten more for McLouth had they offered him to the highest bidder.

Reasons to hate this trade.

1) the team's best player is gone

2) he was under contract for 3 years at a relatively modest price

3) the trade was rushed without shopping for the best return

4) there is little chance that any of these prospects will ever be a significant improvement on McLouth

5) the incredibly depressing message it sends to fans after the Bay/Nady trading debacles last year- we thought the salary dumps were over

Reasons to like the trade.

1) We get to see more minor leaguers playing MLB for the Pirates

Are there others?  The only real argument in favor of the deal I have heard from supporters is that McLouth really wasn't that good, small comfort when he's the best you've got and there is no promise that the team will ever be better as a result of the trade...

There is a reason I haven't been to a Pirates game in 5 years.  I won't be back to PNC Park until they field a major league team.

The management of this team has everything backwards as usual.  Their talk of building a "championship caliber team" is nothing more than hollow, meaningless, marketing pablum.  "You can't get there from here" has never been a more appropriate cliche.  How can "baseball men" be so foolish that they think you can build a championship caliber team when you can't even WIN NOW?

"We're out to win a championship"?  I don't think so Mr. Coonelly.  They don't ACTUALLY award a trophy for championship caliber futility and ineptitude.

I have actively boycotted this team since the orchestrated fan walkout a year and a half ago, and I will continue to do so until this team is under new ownership.  

There is only one thing that is acceptable coming from the management of the ballclub, "Win NOW!"  I'm not talking about bankrupting the team's future for a pennent the way some ACTUAL major league clubs might be tempted to do.  I'm talking about competing NOW to be able to at least win 81 games in a season.  If you can't even do that, don't talk to me about building a "championship caliber team" because you don't have a clue what that looks like.

Let's sway clubs with Indy.  If we're going to have minor league baseball in Pittsburgh, we might as well go all the way to the minors.  Maybe folks in Indy will be dumb enough to think the Pirates are a MLB team.

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I really like the fact that Andrew McCutchen comes up, but it will be interesting to see if Nyjer Morgan can handle whatever new pressures come with his cemented spot in left -- hopefully nothing. Wow the outfield defense is going to be fast.

I wonder if GM Neal Huntington did his due diligence by seeing what other organizations might have offered. It sounds like Huntington's 20-year friendship with some in the Braves' organization took the place of shopping McLouth around to the highest bidder.

I moved from Pittsburgh in 1992, at the time a life-long fan of not only the Pirates, but baseball.  I loved baseball more than hockey or football, and the Pirates more than the Pens or the Steelers.  I knew all of the players, all of the stats.  I was a fan in the lean years, I jumped with glee in 1979 as a 12 year old, and only months earlier I cried when they traded Eddie Whitson (a great trade in retrospect).  However, this "organization" (and I use that term in the way the Mafia is called the mob) has raped its fans over and over and over again.  I have truly, over the last 17 years, wanted a reason to love the Pirates.  No reason has been forthcoming, I am sad to say that I am glad I haven't lived in Pittsburgh so that I would fall to the temptation to buy tickets and go to the games.  I am done waiting for the Pirates organization to do something.  Ownership, go ahead and continue milking the rest for as much as you can line your pockets with.  I hope no one shows up for any more games this year; I honestly do.  I hope that this team is sold to someone that cares about winning and not .... you know what, it isn't even worth it.  I am done.

Maybe Bob is looking to save some money on lost/HR hit baseballs?! Without McLouth, the Pirates starting 8 have like what, 10 HR's between them?! What, with this lineup (sans Nate) and balls being like $10ea, Nutting might squeek out a few more bottles of champagne this year!! LOL.

People are funny. God help me but I love the Pirates. Sometimes I hate that I love the pirates, but I do anyways. Bottom line really is, the Pirates stunk before they played McLouth, they stunk while McLouth was starting (this past year+), and they're going to continue to stink for at least the near future. Their minor league stink, they have few prospects/players, and they really need to start pumping talent in at the lower levels. Stinks to be a Pirate, stinks to be a fan (for now) but years of bad management will do this to a company. Look at GM, Chrysler, etc. At least they aren't looking for government handouts!

Another rebuilding plan begins.  The organization has been "rebuilding" and trading for "prospects" for the last 17 years.  I was amazed that they have kept my interest into June this season but this is it.  The fire sale has started.  Doumit, Duke and the Mascot will be next.  I am officially giving up and rooting for the Cubs.

This trade is a steaming pile of you know what.  When the general manager's comments are lines like "potential to be an above average defender and a productive leadoff hitter" and "frame, athleticism and stuff to become a quality major-league starting pitcher", it doesn't exactly sound like they've acquired some high ceiling guys.  The Pirates already have a slap hitting outfielder with no power(morgan) and their centerfielder of the future(McCutchen).  

Baseball America projects Charlie Morton to be a fifth starter.  Is that they type of high end talent this team is trying to acquire?  Daniel Moskas could be a 5th starter, Gozelanny is certainly 5th starter material, there is no reason to bring on another middling pitching prospect that will never make a major impact.

I'd have to say this is probably the worst trade since the Aramis Ramirez trade.  McLouth is an impact player, he has power, speed, and is an excellent defender.  On top of that, in MLB terms, he was extremely affordable!  I just can't see the logic in this trade.  Why gave up an excellent player for three players with average upside?

The mind is a strange thing, men. We must begin by asking it, "What is losing?"

Losing is a disease as contagious as polio.

Losing is a disease as contagious as syphilis.

Losing is a disease as contagious as bubonic plague... attacking one... but infecting all. But curable.

Now, I want you to imagine you are on a ship at sea...

Yo Ho, Yo Ho, A Pirate's Life For Me!!  16 and counting.

You are always willing to give the Pirates organization the benefit of the doubt when it comes to moves like this, but it's been that way for so long without positive results that it's getting very "old".  It's just too hard not to believe that it isn't only about money.  The organization is really a joke when it comes to baseball savvy and judgment.

I read online that other MLB executives were impressed with Pirates' Management "BOLD" move with this trade.

Isn't it interesting that bad teams are always the one that make "bold" moves.

Good teams like the Yankees and Mets can afford to gamble not teams like the Pirates.

By the way, who exactly represents "the face" of the Pirates now.

Looks like I once again wasted $200 on the MLB extra innings package to watch the hapless Pittsburgh Gamblers

IF two of them were can't miss prospects,

OR IF one of them were the Braves number ONE prospect (none of them were),

THEN maybe I would accept the trade.

As is, no way. You do not trade an All Star Gold Glove outfielder for three prospects.

1)  The one pitcher bombed last year at the major league level.  He was only projected as a number five starter in 2012. Big deal.

2)  The other pitcher is at high single A and struggling. He may never make it to AA let alone the majors.

3)  The outfielder is a slap hitter with no power. Just what we don't need.

I am very unhappy about this.  The GM needs to be fired over this trade.

Nate was a major reason that I got MLB Extra Innings.  

In addition...we did not get any "Major League" ready players. We could have traded someone who was not considered a "CORE" player...such as Nyjer...but Nate should have been considered untouchable.

I urge my fellow Pittsburghers across the country to call for Hunnington's RESIGNATION.

Like most...I am tired of this.  

At least with the Steelers, when you question one of their moves...you end up looking silly...because the replacement turns out to be better than the guy who left!...Here...WE GOT HOSED!

Just a few observations about this:

1.  Don't the Pirates usually wait until Steelers training camp starts before they pull this stuff off so no one really notices?

2.  Maybe management realizes that nobody is noticing anyway so what's the difference

3.  Obviously McLouth wasn't shopped around

4.  When will we stop trading our talented players away for 4th and 5th spot in the rotation caliber pitchers (who wouldn't make the bullpen on other major league teams, except for maybe the Nationals)

5.  If this is the best we can get for the guys we're trading, maybe we, the fans, are drinking the kool-aid a bit much ourselves believing these guys are worth more than what we're getting in return

16, 17 and so on years of losing will do that to a person.

What a joke. The Pirates preach trying to build from their farm system and produce home grown talent. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Nate Mclouth fall under those conditions?

The fact that Mclouth is  27 years old tells me that the organization feels they are a good 5 years away from being a competitive ball club

Getting rid of Mclouth to make room for Mcutchen holds no water at all. Mclouth always could have moved to right field to replace the golden boy Brandon Moss.

Are we suppoesd to expend any emotion on Andrew McCutchen's call-up?  We know how it's going to end - two years from now, maybe three, we'll be reading the headline "Pirate trade McCutchen to [Cubs/Red Sox/Giants/Angels/Dodgers] in exchange for two minor league prospects."  

One thing that really has not been said here, and I think it goes to show the general numbness of these once-loyal fans, is that this team simply refuses to spend money. Nevermind this trade, the Pirates did not add any significant free agents in the last year because they simply refuse to pay for them, which speaks volumes to what this ownership is really about: $$ in their pockets. But at as long as there is revenue sharing, what do they care about being LAST in the league for attendance? I really got a kick this spring when a salesperson from the Pirates called me to try and sell tickets, claiming that they had made some "big improvements" over the offseason. Its amazing how stupid they think the fans are, especially with 2 winning pro teams in town. If you go to the games, which I WILL NOT, please wear a bag over your head like a good LA Clippers fan would.

If the Braves were not going to give Hanson up for Jake Peavy do you really think they were going to give him up for Nate?

Please!!!! Have an understand here.  I understand the emotions that are around this trade but look into these guys deeper than ERA W/L AVG and such.  Most of those metrics are nice but don't paint a real accurate picture.

By some of the more advanced metrics out there Gorkys is ranked anywhere between 2nd and 5th best defensive Center Fielder in ALL of minor league baseball.  And yes he's even better than McCutchen and McCutchen was ML ready defensively 2 years ago.  Does anyone remember Chris Duffy?  Well Jim Tracy and company had him switch his natural tendency to hit line drives to do something different and it really messed him up.  IMO the same thing has been done to Gorkys, once he is straightened out he's a slam dunk.  He won't hit a whole bunch of homeruns, but he will carry a higher OBP which is what a table setter needs to do.  Be on base to be driven in.

As for the pitchers Locke was drafted the same year as Brad Lincoln.  That was an insane year for pitchers.  Clayton Kershaw, Brandon Morrow, Bryan Avery Morris, Max Scherzer just to name a few.  Locke was taken in the second round and coming out of H.S. his stuff was being compared to Billy Wagner.  In most years he would have probably been a mid to late first round draft pick.  There was just that many good pitchers that year.

He was stretched out to 139 innings last year for the first time, with good results.  His overall numbers this year are so/so but he misses a good amount of bats and gets a high rate of ground balls.  In 250+ innings pitched he has given up 13 HR which is phenomenal.  All of those indicators lend toward a very high tendency of a player doing well at the next level.

Add Morton to the mix and the deal is very sweet.  Especially when you consider the Padres wanted both Locke and Morton as a part of the Jake Peavy trade.    

Very disappointed with the McLouth trade.  Just one more reason not to attend a Pirate's game this year.  They just don't seem to get it!  When you make a trade, could you possible get one player with substantial major league experience.  Trading for prospects is a hit or miss proposition.  Most of the time, it is miss.  The last trade that benefitted the Pirates was the Giles trade, and Perez & Bay are no longer with the club.  McCutcheon needs to be up, but this does not seem like the right time.  Would it have not made more sense to trade McLouth closer to the trade deadline?  He certainly would have been worth more.  This move is as disappointing as not drafting Matt Wieters a few years ago.  Will this organization ever learn!

Or he breaks a leg, tears a ligament and isn't worth squat.  Misses the rest of the year and subsequently can't play up to the remaining amount on his contract and no one wants him.  Don't disregard the other side of the coin.

The time to trade a guy is when a team is willing to overpay what you believe he is worth.  That's the best time!!

Nate was a Nice player, not a great player.

Let's see...Rajai Davis, Nyjer Morgan, McCtutchen, all excellent fielding CFs who have not prove they can hit major league pitching consistently....whereas McClouth does, fields to a Gold Glove level, is 27 and has a reasonable contact.

Prospects are exactly that, prospects and here is a look at the prospects the Pirates received:

Charlie Morton(notes), 25, is 7-2 with a 2.51 ERA in the Class AAA International League. The righthander, a third-round pick in 2002, went 4-8 with a 6.51 ERA in 16 appearances—15 starts—for Atlanta in 2008.

LHP Jeff Locke, 21, was the Braves' second-round pick in 2006. He is 1-4 with a 5.52 ERA in the Class A Carolina League.

Gorkys Hernandez is a 21-year-old righthanded-hitting center fielder batting .316 with no homers and 10 stolen bases in the Class AA Southern League. He was signed out of Venezuela by the Tigers in 2005, then traded to Atlanta in the Edgar Renteria(notes) deal in 2007.

.....I don't see fair value....magnified by Hernandez inclusion....Pirates need power hitting corner OF or IF not another defensive CF.

Anyone who wastes their money on the Pirates is just as stupid as their management.

This has become an annual ritual, dump anyone with talent.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pittsburgh needs to get out of pro baseball. The Pirates are nothing more than a farm team for the rest of the major league cities.

I used to be a Pirate fan, attended the first night World Series game way back when and  stayed up nights late to listen to their broadcasts from the West coast.

What a pathetic organization this has become.

I feel sorry for anyone who has hung in there this long with the screwed up management currently in place.

DUMB, DUMBER, and DUMBEST!

The Pirates should change thier name to the Pittsburgh Prospects. If McCtutchen continues to play the way he did today he will be gone by the trading deadline for ofcourse prospects.....Question do you think the Pirates could get an All Star player for three prospects? No, I don't think any team could unless they were trading with Buccos

This is the type of trade that the Pirates need to make if they ever want to compete on the highest level.  Jeff is correct that the pirates couldn't get an all-star for three prospects, but that is a reflection of the Pirates farm system talent level, not the management.  Looking through the minor league stats at all levels, two things become very obvious, first: McCutchen is ready to play and needs to play everyday or risk stagnation.  Second : there is no pitching of any kind in the minor's, they have no pitching depth at all, what happens if a starter or two go down look at the aaa stats there is no one to take a spot.  Organizational depth is the most important thing they can create to undo the sins of the "win 82 games" attitude that prevailed for so long.  This is the kind of trade that if they keep it up will eventually result in a team that contends for a title, not just wins 82 games every couple years

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