Paterno wants Pitt in Big Ten

1)  I think that the Big Ten will stay at 11 teams unitl Notre Dame makes a decision one way or the other.

2)  I don't think that Pitt would leave. Basketball has become as important if not more so than Football has. I don't think that Pitt hoops would want to leave the Big East and their rivalries with Syracuse, UConn, WVU etc.

3) I agree what with Bob said at the end. If a Big East team would leave, the football conference might have to disband. There wouldn't be that many quality teams to replace them with. (Navy? Memphis? Central Florida?)

Saint Joe is a sly old fox.

He said ``Let’s get a 12th team -- Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt..."

He knows exactly the effect that comment would have at Big East headquarters.

He knows exactly the effect such an arrangement would have on the Big East.

He knows the Big East is still living somewhat on the edge, football-wise.

He knows any of those teams would come running if called.

Pitt, I think, would be way down the list. Rutgers, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Missouri would all be a better fit.

Bob, was your comment "But don’t blame Joe. He’s just trying to help." tongue in cheek? I think it was.

Joe is trying to help like the fox is trying to help the chickens. And the Big East is the chickens.

Keep in mind Bob that a conference championship game can also give an additional opportunity.  Florida this year is a perfect example.  They lost at home to O'l Miss.  Iit was only the SEC title game, with a win against Alabama, that gave them the chance to play in the National Championship game.  So it certainly can work both ways.

I kind of agree with Schadenfreude ... he may have publicly mentioned Pitt but may privately be pushing for Rutgers.  

There is no doubt that ND is the iniitial B10 choice but as long as NBC contracts with the Irish, I can't see not wanting any change.  I would have to think Rutgers would be its 2nd choice because of location .... B10 would love a presence in NYC.

I do give JoePa  props for mentioning that the conferece is dominated by a couple of people ... probably a few other B10 schools would like to expose.

Lastly, although it would seem that Pitt would likely not leave the BE because of its basketball program, the B10 would probably mean more money due to its FB TV contract and bowl tie-ins .... and money has been the main criterion for all recent conference re-alignments.

Pitt joining the Big Ten(eleven) makes too much sense... WVU probably makes even more sense (can we arrange a 2-for-1 trade giving up Northwestern for Pitt and another eastern school TBD?)...

From a football POV, it would provide a closer geographic rival for PSU (although, the land grant thing with Mich State is the conference's attempt to ameliorate the two big state U's)... and those who think it would be a step backward in basketball are shortsighted -- the Big Ten is a more genuine conference than the scattered Big East, and Pitt would add to the conference's b-ball alrady formidable strength.

Again, JoePa is ahead of his time. not bad for the wily, cantankerous octogenarian.

When Schadenfreude speaks you should listen....

JoePA is skillful and "cunning" and bears watching at all times!  

I think he would love to put it to the Big East---don't you all remember when the schools like Syracuse and Pitt wouldn't go along with him to form a "Big" Conference of Eastern Schools in the 1980's....he remembers stuff in the distant past very well!

For those of you too young to remember, the stated two top reasons for PSU joining the Big Ten was the Library Systems of the Schools [Joe has donated thousands to the Pattee Library on Campus] and so Northwestern could win two more basketball games per year!

Pitt would jump into the Big 10 in a heartbeat. It would not hurt their basketball program, at least initially, and they may actually start putting bodies in the seats at Heinz field, especially when they play Penn State. Also, Pitt brass would know if they said no the next phone calls would be ot otther Big East members.

Do you realzie how much money the Big Ten is losing each year (by not playing a conference championship game) waiting for Notre Dame? SUCKERS! Notre Dame will only join a conference when and if they are no longer able to draw a huge following every Saturday- at which point who wants them?

Remember the money from a conf. title game must be divided 12 ways.  It's not as much as most people think, particularly considering the size of athletic dept. budgets. -- Bob Smizik

Rutgers might be a good TV market fit, but would be a brutal sports fit.   Other than the Ray Rice era, traditionally mediocre football and practically non existant basketball.   If Rutgers left the Big East it might be 5 years before anybody in the conference noticed.  Syracuse would never leave the Big East basketball scene, nor should they, they're a basketball school now, not a football school.   Pitt would leave in a second for the Big Ten, if invited.  Sure they would have to give up Big East hoops, but 12,500 at the Pete doesn't compare to jamming Heinz Field  with 65,000 every other year for Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan.  Think that annual  Pitt-Penn State game wouldn't be good for everybody involved?

Football is king $$$ wise. The Big East originally was not intended to be a football conference, as was the reason Pitt joined it back in the 80's. Pitt would very likely still pack the Pete for their hoops, and then they'd get much more football wise.

I don't think that Pitt joining the Big 10 is that bad of an idea.  I know they have been waiting for Notre Dame to join but I just don't see that happening in the near future.  

Most decisions involving college sports are financially driven and if Pitt was extended an invitation to the Big 10 they would accept it immediately (or be absolutely foolish not to.)  The revenue in college football is significantly more than basketball (especially for those that draw well), not to mention that the Big 10 gets much more in bowl revenue than the Big East as well.   I think most true Pitt fans would rather have them be relevant in football over basketball anyway.  I'm sure there would be much more excitement if teams such as Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan State come to Heinz Field versus pretty much anybody else on Pitt's schedule, with the possible exception of WVU.

I believe that there are also certain academic requirements that the Big 10 says that they require in order to bring in a new member (I forget what it is specifcally called) and Pitt is one of the schools that would qualify.  

Bob - I think that your recent post about the PSU-Pitt rivalry not ever being the same is probably true, but both teams in the same conference would be the best case scenario for those hoping it does come back to the way it used to be.

Laughable that Joe Pa did not mention WVU; guess he only wants teams he could beat on a regualr basis.  Check WVU's ratings when they play on national television; see the packed stadium every football season and look at Mountaineer fans record for traveling to bowl games.  How soon we forget that WVU saved the conference when it beat UGA in the Sugar Bowl and then beat down Oklahoma int he Fiesta Bowl.  Big 10 won't expand at the end of the day but mentioning Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt instead of WVU is laughable.

Bob, at first I wanted to argue, as the conference title game is pure profit. The SEC schools each got $1.1 million net for last years championship game. But the Big 10 would have to split all other moneys 12 ways instead of 11, so I guess you're right, there would probably be a net loss unless they got a much bigger TV package-suggesting strongly that Rutgers is your girl.  

Pingback from  JoePa Endorses A Big Ten Addition | Onward State

Conference expansion has reached its limits.  When a playoff is instituted, which is inevitable, it's going to include all 11 conferences and 5 at-large bids for a 16-team format.  No way does the MWC or WAC get left out for fear of an anit-trust lawsuit or Congress' threatening BCS conference schools with retraction of their non-profit status.  A  playoff similar to the NCAA tournament is going to make large conferences extremely inconvenient to negotiate to get to the "Big Dance" of football.  

Rutgirls offers nothing in terms of the NY television market.  Syracuse actually offers more from NY, however, NYC is a pro-sports market - it doesn't care about college football.  The ACC is finding that out about Boston right now.  Also, neither NY nor NJ are big-time breeding grounds of blue-chip football talent.  Talk it up all you want, NJ still falls far behind OH and PA in high-school football talent.  So what does the Big 10 really gain by adding those schools?

Unlike basketball, which has a national AAU program creating a national recruiting scene, football is grounded to be regional.  It's a sport that requires armies of players, most of which must come from your backyard.  There's really no such thing as a nationally-recruiting university in college football, (except for Notre Dame somewhat).  One only has to look at the last dozen or so national champions to see where the best talent is coming from - not only the South, but from the big 3 states in recruiting too.  Demographic trends in the US continue to show population growth and movement to the South and West.  This isn't a trend that's going to stop anytime soon.  And as high school football continues to decline in PA due to a deminishing and aging population in the state, so too will the recruiting grounds and the fortunes of both Pitt's and Penn State's football programs.

While college basketball brings in less money, it costs exponentially less to operate.  And it still brings in huge dollars.  The ability to recruit not only the flourishing DC area for talent, but the national AAU circuit makes basketball Pitt's golden egg.  Pitt won't leave the Big East for the Big 10 for the simple reason that it will diminish their basketball identity as a Big East bruiser.  It correctly identifies itself as a Northeast school, full of Northeast kids, with more in common with Syracuse and UConn students than Midwestern kids.  Basketball is the past, present, and future for the Northeast; a fact not lost on Big East schools.

Bob, I get the sensation you've been around the block with JoePa a few times, eh?  Ah yes, the Big Eleven...JoePa found his way in there and he's not above stirrin the pot "a bit" yes?  Oh, the allure the Big Ten once was....now it's all but holding on by it's teeth as the seats of power moves South (football) and East (basketball) with the West continuously providing increasing levels of competitive programs for both the South and East to tangle with.....The Midwest...The Big Ten...soon to be like the Big Three (or should I say Two now)....bankrupt!

What a misleading title.  Pitt is third in Joe's list and probably far further down the list.  WVU would follow Pitt, not because the teams are bad, but because this is all about money and nobody cares how many TVs are on in Wheeling, Morgantown or Charleston.

If the Big Ten wants to add another team the plan would be simple.  Make a public announcement that a new team will be added in the next X months/years.  Ask Notre Dame, with the understanding that if they say no, they won't get another shot because the conference is going to Missouri, Syracuse, Rutgers, Louisville or Pitt next.  There are no other natural conference fits for ND and if anyone other than Missouri ends up in the Big Ten, there is no guarantee that the Big East as a football conference could even survive.

Sadly, I don't think the Big Ten cares too much about Joe's thoughts on this topic.  They will remain an eleven team conference until ND gets so bad that they have no choice but to join.

The only school the Big 10 is interested in is Notre Dame.  And the only thing that stands in the way of them joining is the NBC television contract.  The Big East allows ND to keep their basketball program relevant and gives their Olympic sports a home.  Once their exclusive television deal is gone they'll be in the Big 10.  It's inevitable.

Shortly after Paterno suggested Pitt join the Big "Not Really" 10 he requested a blanket and some pudding som take thatfor what it's worth.

Well, with all due respect to all concerned, Joe's statement sounds like kind of a throw-away one-liner. I think alot of folks think it would make sense for the Big 10 to add a team, split into divisions and go the playoff route.

Whether it would be a good move for the Big 10  is open to debate. The SEC has so many good teams that it makes for compelling TV. It has worked out moderately well for the Big 12 as well, but it has probably hurt the ACC and the Mid Majors don't have enough national interest to make a difference.

For many reasons noted here, the inevitable 12th Big Ten team will be forthcoming.  Not IF, WHEN and WHO.

Yes, Notre Dame holds the momentary ace.  As they approach 2 decades of football mediocrity, little or no basketball visibility, their TV market cachet as a stand-alone teeters.  No doubt they have to be looking at the reality of their katholic kingdom on the brink.  

So they could well be closer than we might imagine to fulfilling their Big 10 promise.

But if not, there is one more team in the mix that would be motivated, marketable, and make a lot of sense.  UConn.

As for the pooh-poohing a Pitt, Syracuse, WV, ND, Yukon move from Big East basketball to Big 10 ...remember, the Big 10 has had more champs and Final Four teams over 10, 20, 30 years than the Big East.  So by both football, basketball ...whichever team 'tis, it'll be an obvious promotion on the gridiron and an ultimate one in hoops.  

Especially when whichever team that is puts one more dagger in the Big East on its way out.  

Not sure where you get your facts from WP, but including Magic's year with MSU in 1979, over the past 30 years 3 Big 10 teams have won 5 National Championships.  Over that same span, 4 Big East teams have won 5 National Championships, not including the 2 that current member Lousiville won in 1980 & '86.

It's funny how the same people who say the rivalry is dead spend so much time here engaging in the battle of words.  Must mean something to them.  

As for the ridiculous notion that UConn would make the move, it's not even worth commenting because it will never happen.

Yo APM ...don't you wanna count Cincy's 2 titles in the '60s too?

Were you one of my students, you'd get "F" for selectively doing your homework.  True ... 30 years ...tie of 5-5 on NCAA titles for Big 10 and Big East.  But your homework was to look also @ Final Fours ... and you conveniently ignore that answer which fails to serve your incorrect contention ... Let's look once again at your failed assignment which was to validate my contention that ..:

"the Big 10 has had more champs and Final Four teams over 10, 20, 30 years than the Big East."

Note the "and".  In which case, the Big 10 had a full 1/3 more Final Four Teams, including 10-6 over the past decade, and 14-8 over the past score.  You must read the instructions.

Now to some of your other points which are sort of silly:

1. You note: "Conference expansion has reached its limits. "  That's purely laughable.  Ask BC, Miami.  Watch ND. Watch another Big Easter if ND says nay to Big 10.  And when that one goes, watch smores.

2. You note: "Rutgirls offers nothing in terms of the NY television market.  Syracuse actually offers more from NY, however, NYC is a pro-sports market - it doesn't care about college football.  The ACC is finding that out about Boston right now.  Also, neither NY nor NJ are big-time breeding grounds of blue-chip football talent.  Talk it up all you want, NJ still falls far behind OH and PA in high-school football talent.  So what does the Big 10 really gain by adding those schools?"

There's so much balogna here to munch on, readers are choking, and it's hard to know where to begin to debunk your silly observations.  Your nose is growing litlle fella.

3.  You note: "Pitt won't leave the Big East for the Big 10 for the simple reason that it will diminish their basketball identity as a Big East bruiser. "

We agree here, sorta.  Pitt'll not leave the Big East for the Big 10, we agree.  But as a number of others have logiced well, the reason is because no matter JoePA's idle inkling and name-dropping of Pitt, they'll not be asked.  As has been hashed and rehashed, there is simply no good or compelling reason to ask a Pitt.  They add no value to Big 10 cachet.  Joe's a convenient Pitt boogieman, but in this case, ther'll be 10 other athletic powers piling on his no-Pitt bandwagon.  Whether or not, it's payback for Joe, for them it'd just be bad business decision.

Lastly, it would seem you're the proverbial pot ...calling this kettle black in criticizing my presence.  You note: "It's funny how the same people who say the rivalry is dead spend so much time here engaging in the battle of words. "  

Are you one of my wife's grabble-gurty coffee-clatchers?

You know some people like to drink or blow dope, some people like to chase broads, some people like to gig frogs in the moonlight, some people like to pick nits like yours.  Each to her own.

And as you've shown, some people like to spit into the wind.

Now, you've some homework to check.

It's nice to see Paterno being honest enough to say he is not the big wheel in the Big 11 he would like to be.  I hope his words send a warning to the Big East. The track record of complacency will doom the conference. Take steps to secure the future of the Big East as a football conference.

You're the one who mentioned 30 yrs WP, not me.  I can go back as far as you want, but the BE has only been around since 1979, so it'd be a little difficult to assess any further.  But for one thing I'm certain:   I'm glad I'm not one of your students because I'd definitely fail your math class.  By 10 yrs I assume you mean 11 because that's how long it's taken the Big 10 to amass the 10 Final Four appearances you mentioned.  The Big East actually had 8 in that period.  Sure it's less than the Big Ten, but the Big East has won it 3 of those times to the Big Ten's 1.  The Big Ten is blessed, however  to have Michigan State (5 of it's 10 FF appearances in this period), who has the best basketball coach in America, IMO.  Anyway, I'm fortunate as well because had I taken your math class I might have only gotten in to Penn State-Altoona.

As for your other points:

1.  For what conference outside of the Big Ten is there any conversation about expansion?  None.  The Pac 10 isn't adding Boise State or Utah.  The Big 12 and SEC have a great thing going and everyone there is happy.  Funny thing about the ACC is that Miami used to be the geographic odd-ball.  Now it's BC.  I wonder if they would do it over again knowing Syracuse wouldn't be joining them.  So tell me, who's left?  Expansion outside of ND joining the Big 10 is a non-issue.  A 16-team playoff with 11 automatic conference qualifiers and only 5 at-large bids will turn the conference alignments on their collective heads though, and it's not going to result in expansion.

2.  You mentioned there was bologna, but  didn't exactly mention what it was.  So I'm not sure what to say here......except that if Rutgirls was important enough to the NYC television market, don't you think the ACC would have given them serious consideration?  They wanted Syracuse instead.  As for recruiting, go to any of the sites and simply do a prospect search and sort by state.  There's a huge disparagement between OH/PA and NY/NJ.  

3.  My statement about Pitt not wanting to diminish its standing in basketball was in no means a disparagement of Big Ten basketball, and you have my sincerest apologies if it came off that way.  Pitt simply isn't a Midwestern school, and doesn't fit the culture.  A move to the Big Ten, which I also agree is not going to happen, would simply serve to identify Pitt as a Midwestern school, something the type of athletes they recruit to play basketball do not identify with.

In any event I really don't care what Joe Paterno has to say, and neither does anyone in the Big Ten.  It's funny, but his recurring theme on this issue is to always mention Northeastern schools.  I wonder if he misses his old pals.  Joe's a Northeast guy, so I can't fault him for wanting to bring some familiarity to his new neighborhood; but unfortunately he's stuck playing Midwest politics.

In any event, I can see why your wife's friends have so much fun with you.

Not to nit pick, but there never is a pitt/psu blog without whistle pig to tell us in no fewer than 1000 words how great psu/big ten is and how inferior pitt/big east is. Have you ever been in a room with a person who speaks because he loves the sound of his voice?

He doesn't care about pitt, and portrays himself as an objective observer, but his words say otherwise. In a previous post he implied that a.q shipley is a better prospect than lesean mccoy. Absurd. Having said that, I hope a.q shipley proves me and nfl teams wrong.

The Big 10 is the greatest athletic conference ever created, and all those before it shall bow.......

In doing my "homework", I did, however check and I truly would have failed WP math class.  Since 1999 the Big East has only sent 6 members to the Final Four, the Big 10 sent 9 (Ohio State's trip in 1999 was vacated by the NCAA).  Marquette in '03 and Louisville in '05 were not yet members of the Big East.  My mistake.  In any event the Big East has been significantly upgraded in basketball by their additions, and is second to no one in terms of conference strength in the sport.  Any one of Syracuse, UConn, Pitt or Rutgers could leave and Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Louisville, and the others would continue to carry the banner.  In terms of basketball, their bread and butter, the Big East would hardly skip a beat by losing one member.

Football is a different story, but it would entirely depend on who they lost.  Losing Syracuse, Pitt, and to some extent WVU would mean losing an anchor member with the only real, historical national reputation, and would be a real blow.  Rutgers and UConn, while a setback, have only been able to offer minor bowl and recent success, and could be replaced.  Being in its infancy gives the conference some flexibility in this matter.  

This is all under the assumption that given the offer, any of these schools would automatically accept what would amount to an impenetrable second-class status within it's new conference in football and at best, a lateral move in basketball with increased travel expense overhead for all sports.

AQ Shipley's cool now that he's a Steeler, if he can make the team.

Mr. Pitt...it's good knowing you're reading carefully and even counting my every word. Thanks.

The idea anyone here is "objective" is delusional.  As my prof used to say, you have to stand somewhere to look at anything.  It's called POV.

But your tactic of personally attacking someone when you've no other point to make is so PC these days.  It speaks volumes. You may want to think about running for office?

If the Big 10 invited Pitt to join I suppose it would have to. Although tradeoffs would be entailed, you cannot dispute  that the Big 10 would offer more stability and less risk long term. But I believe the chance of that happening is extremely unlikely. And I do not believe the Big 10 will invite any other Big East team to join.  My guess is that if the Big 10 were to add a 12th member it would be Missouri. Notre Dame’s nationwide alumni would not want the Irish to join the Big 10 and Notre Dame does need the Big 10.

As for the Big East, while it now enjoys the afterglow of another successful basketball season it remains a somewhat unwieldy mish mash.  And that I think makes it vulnerable, in football particularly. So what is to be done? Well league memberships cannot be traded like baseball cards or players in fantasy leagues, but if I could, this is what I would do.  

1. Send thank you notes to DePaul and Marquette and then drop them. One of the issues I see with the Big East it is over-stretched geographically and its urban Catholic university members  do not field Division 1 Football teams have too little in common with its public football playing universities and private Syracuse.  Yes Marquette has fielded some strong basketball teams but it’s just not a good match and Milwaukee is too far west. DePaul may never regain its basketball glory and it is farther west in Chicago.  As for The Big East’s other non-football  Catholic university members, most of which are charter members, more on that below.  

2. The Big East in football needs to be a 10, 11 or 12 team league.  And there aren’t too many schools available that would fit and none that are football powerhouses. But under the theory that a rising tide raises all teams, my first choice would be Memphis. It has a premier basketball program and like Pitt, Louisville and Cincinnati, it is an urban public university with some convergence of common interests.  For its 10th football member add another urban, public university, Temple. Yes I know Temple football’s programs was shown the Big East's door, a mistake in my opinion,  but this time it’s offered full membership and another good basketball program is added.  Yes, I know Temple football is, well Temple football, but don’t forget the rising tide theory.

3. For the 11th football member Boston College returns.  This may not be a sale that can be closed. But I am not sure that the ACC is a good fit for B.C.  In this scheme the Big  East offers B.C. a powerhouse basketball league and an improved football  league both of which  the Eagles can be more than competitive in.

4. The 12th football member is optional. A league championship is not a must. But if a 12th team were to be added,  I would say at it’s a pick 'em between Buffalo and East Carolina. Neither is ideal . And  Syracuse might not want Buffalo and I think their wishes on that subject would need to be honored.  

5. Returning to the non football catholic universities,  that that leaves Georgetown , St. John’s , Providence,  Seton Hall and Villanova.   Georgetown , Villanova  and St. John’s remain in the big East  because they are in large media markets  and all have had basketball success, although St. John’s has not been recent. Providence would not go anywhere because of the Big East’s roots there and Providence’s  in the league’s founding.  But  In  my view, Seton Hall does not make the cut. St. John’s and Rutgers cover the New Jersey - New York media market.  It is a small  chool and Seton Hall has not fielded a really good basketball team in about 20 years. It plays  to more than half empty crowds in the Prudential Center in Newark .  The Pirates would really be better off in the Atlantic  10 or Patriot League.

This  is not a perfect solution but  Penn State will remain in the Big 10 for good and Pitt will not.  Expanding the Big East’s football league makes the Big East less vulnerable to the effect of losing any one member and expands its television market.  Paring off DePaul,  Marquette and Seton Hall removes members whose profiles do not complement most of the other schools.    

Very interesting thoughts, Howard.  I agree that the urban theme is essential to the Big East identity.  I thought Memphis would have been given more consideration the first time around, though rumor has it that John Calipari is somewhat black-balled by the Big East over recruiting tactics as an assistant at Pitt in the '80's.  This might have had something to do with their exclusion,  though given a do-over, the Big East might have opted for them instead of DePaul.  Memphis is an urban school, with big-time local fan and city support.  And besides their basketball program, they've been putting guys in the NFL lately and play in the Liberty Bowl, a really cool college football stadium.

Pingback from  PATERNO: Pitt in Big Ten? | Sports.ExclusiveRumors.com

btw, Bob and many others perceive Joe has no lost love for Pitt nor lost emotion pining about the passing of the Pitt-Penn State pigskin gig.  I trust it's true, and that his comment patronizing Pitt's potential for Big 10 membership was just an old fellow's foxy ramblings to get the bees buzzing on 'Burgh blogs.

He knows it'd be a pipedream so no harm done. Joe, you devil!  ;-)  

Pingback from  Big Ten football championship game? - SatelliteGuys.US

Saturday, 1:00 a.m. Q: The Pirates could very well enter 2010 without Adam LaRoche, Jack Wilson, John