In defense of Bob Nutting

This is a surprise!  I would have thought that if a mob was being organized to drag Bob Nutting from PNC Park, Bob Smizik would have been the leader.

Here's my problem with this though; While Kevin McClatchy was the visible face of Pirate ownership for the mid-90's through 2007, I thought when Bob Nutting took control in 2007, it was somewhat revealed at that time that McClatchey never really was the Boss, but answered to the Nutting family?  If this is true, then the Pirate failures lie with the Nuttings, which would also include one Bob Nutting.  I would find it hard to believe that his influence just started in 2007 when he officially became Principal owner.

Bob, the jury is still 'way out' on Nutting as an owner. The major decision that he has made thus far is the hiring of Coonelly and Coonelly's/Nutting's subsequent hiring of Huntington.

Team Coonington is a marked improvement over the two "baseball men" who presided over the Pirates for the previous six plus years.

But, in the long run, success will be measured by the Ws and Ls on the field, the attendance at the ballpark and the overall bottom line.

I am still of the opinion that Bob Nutting knows very little about the business of baseball. We can only hope that his key baseball advisors know how to operate.

I, too, got the impression that the Nuttings --primarily G. Ogden at first, then increasingly Bob-- were calling a lot of the shots behind McClatchey. We know that Bob has been chairman of the Pirates board since 2003, the year of the dastardly Aramis Ramirez trade. But exactly what was the whole story behind that fiasco, remains a mystery to me. We've all heard the rumors, some of which have involved tales of rejected stock offerings which would have precluded the need to dump Rammy's salary. I wish I new more about what to believe, and not believe, about that time.

That said, it is impossible to deny that Bob Nutting has not been opening his wallet, lately. Indeed, we have the Pedro Alvarez signing. And we have all the recent signings of core players which Mr. Smizik cites. Plus, I had completely forgotten about the $10 million given to Matt Morris --that was HUGE.

I still want to see if Nutting, Coonelly and Huntington will remain patient with this core, and not become sellers at the first sign of a swoon. And the purse will have to be opened even wider, if the winning is to be sustained. But Bob Nutting gets the benefit of the doubt at this time. And I hope I get to remove the "at this time" qualifier, for good.

Correction: should not have had the word "not" in the sentence, "it is impossible to deny that Bob Nutting has not been opening his wallet." Hope I didn't distract anybody from my point that I agree Nutting has indeed been spending money, these last few seasons.

I agree for the most part with this article. There's some evidence he was sort of running things behind the scenes as early as 2003, although I'm sure his overall effect on the W-L record was not as much as fans would like to blame him for. There are two guys who deserve a lot more blame for 16 years of failure and their names are Cam Bonifay and Dave Littlefield. They were the guys responsible for running this franchise for 15+ years, they were the ones who drafted Mark Farris ahead of Nomar Garciaparra, JJ Davis ahead of Lance Berkman, Bryan Bullington ahead of BJ Upton and for some unknown reason drafted power hitting 1B John Van Benschoten as a pitcher and never gave up, despite a clear lack of pitching talent. They traded Jon Lieber for Brant Brown, Aramis for nothing, Ryan Vogelsong for Jason Schmidt, Kris Benson for Ty Wiggington, traded nothing for Matt Morris and his $13 million contract, let Joe Randa leave in the 98 expansion draft and not having a back up plan for 3B, signed Kevin Young, Pat Meares, Derek Bell, Joe Randa in 06 and Jeromey Burnitz for too much money. I mean, it's not a matter of opening up the wallets, it's about making smart, educated baseball moves and 15 years of two General Managers who could not do that has created the streak. There's plenty of blame to go around and Bob Nutting shouldn't get all of it because he wasn't in charge for most of them.

"Kris Benson for Ty Wiggington"

They got that one just about right.

Bob, it's always interesting to play devils advocate. But as to making a case for Nutting, it just doesn't work.

As noted in other posts, the Nutting family has lurked secretly in the back of the Pirate board meetings for numerous years. It's only the past couple years that we could even put a face on these "corporate pirates" that currently hold this franchise hostage.

Besides running the baseball club like a county fair, they've pillaged every decent player that develops for the Pirates, and shipped them to bigger markets for a haircut and a shoeshine.

The number of their mistakes is endless, and it is senseless to even list such a mess. The best thing they could do is sell this team to a real baseball owner and skip out of town with their fat wallets, which are the only thing that they even remotely care about.

I can't think of a more disappointing name in my living history of Pittsburgh sports than Nutting.

1. Consistently, the majority of winning teams spend more than the Pirates. End of discussion.  Show me the money, Mr Nutting.

$50 million is an unacceptably low payroll.

2. The theory that Pittsburgh can't attract quality free agents is a crutch used to excuse current behavior.

Good players are willing to sign free-agent contracts to play for the Pirates. See: Bay, Jason. But it is going to cost. Deal with it, Mr Nutting.

3. Mr Nutting is the man in charge; therefore it is quite appropriate that he should take the heat for the team's failures.

The Nuttings had a large piece of this team well before 2007. McClatchy took orders from the Nuttings; not the other way around.

The Nutting family, being wealthy and good businessmen, do not strike me as the type that would invest heavily in a business, and allow others to call the shots. Hence the 'McClatchy as figurehead' theory, which I think has some merit.

4. Mr Nutting has the gross misfortune to toil in the same city as two - perhaps THE two - most popular owners in American, if not world, sport - Dan Rooney and Mario Lemieux.

In comparison, Bob Nutting appears as a cold, impersonal businessman.

He literally needs some professional PR work, because he - rightly or wrongly - comes off as an outsider, using a Pittsburgh institution to reap profit.

He's definitely not a Pittsburgh guy - which may be his biggest sin.

Good morning, Bob!  I am visiting Pittsburgh this week from my home in Huntington, WV. I grew up in Weirton, WV, in the 1960-1970 era, and saw "the real deal" when it came to baseball talent. I also remember when owners actually knew the game, or knew enough to hire knowledgeable leadership (thank God Bing Crosby understood his role!). I love to attend games @ PNC, it is a glorious venue! I think we should be thankful that we still have a baseball team in Pittsburgh....

His family are the major owners-and thus the the ultimate bosses- of a team that has lost for 16 consecutive years. They "chose the guys who chose the guys." The Nuttings are as responsible for the failures of the Pirates as any other owners are or were for the success or failure of their team. Your argument does make one point-it seems they are trying a bit harder to win these past two years than in the previous 14, perhaps because they are no longer anonymous and now can be shamed.  

Bob,

Are you bucking for a job with Ogden Publications like John Perotto?

Bob -

To credit Nutting with what has gone on only for the past 2 seasons is ridiculous.  He has owned the worst team in professional sports for the past 16+ seasons, making him the main culprit.  Also, attempting to say that the past 2 years have been some sort of success is ludicrous.  He deserves every bit of criticism he gets.  A 50 Million dollar payroll is pathetic as well!  RAISE THE JOLLY ROGER!

Lets see, how can you build a team when you blow it up every year?!?  The Bucs had the bats last season all they needed was some pitching in the offseason and they would be able to challange for a .500 record this season.  looks like thats not going to happen.  While were at it this year lets trade Doumit and Mclouth for Kris Benson and just call it a "rebuilding" process.

I'm 100% behind Bob here.  He has shown a commitment to building a proper business with the Pirates.  He has finally put them on solid financial footing.  They have begun to add talent through all levels of the organization.  When the time comes where they can actually be competitive you will see the payroll increase.  Its just good business.  If you question his commitment in other areas here are a few articles to check out on Nutting' other matters.  

search.post-gazette.com/redir.asp

www.post-gazette.com/.../905937-59.stm

Among other projectsat Seven Springs that took form once he took over; mountain bike and ATV trails, a sporting clay course, complete renovation of every room in the hotel, and plans to build a indoor waterpark.  He is spending money there because it makes sense to spend money.  He needs to completely overhaul the faciltiies in order to turn a profit.  Which is almost the exact situation he had when he took over the Pittsburgh Pirates.

George,

1 Did you not read the article?  Bob outlined a few instances where the Nuttings did pay out money at the urging of his baseball people.  I do not want a Dan Snyder time owner throwing out money to everyone.  The Yankees spend, and they stink.

2 "The theory that Pittsburgh can't attract quality free agents is a crutch used to excuse current behavior."

No theory, this is a fact.  Jason Bay did not sign with the Pirates as a free agent.  He signed a contract covering his arbitration years.  He gave up potential earnings in exchange for the stability of knowing he will have a paycheck.  If you know JBays history, this is understandable.  This offseason, he will not sign a deal with Seatle to be close to Trail BC, he will sign a big contract, since this is his last chance at getting a big deal.

That is just using your example of Jason Bay.  Ask the Nationals how your theory works.  They offered Mark Texiera alot more than the Yankees did.  Not only did he pass on going home, but he passed on more money.

3 The Nuttings made zeor baseball decisions.  McClatchy and Littlefield were in charge of who they signed.  Nutting did not draft a relief pitcher over a franchise catcher.  If you think he did, why draft Alverez one year later?  Why did they not sign Matt Clement to a big contract?

4 Not sure what you are getting at here.  Both of your popular owners threatened to move the team, Rooney outside of the city limits and Mario to anywhere but Pittsburgh.  If it was not for the terrible teams setup by Bonifay and Littlefield, you would not think Nutting is cold.  He has made plenty of good moves, and the Pirates are the most affordable entertainment in the region.  If they were on year two of a losing streak, you would not care about his personality.

Finally, you pull the "not a Pittsburgh guy" quote that is popular when a team is losing, or we need a new hire.  Mike Tomlin is not a Pittsburgh guy.  He is not so bad.  Mario is French Canadian.  He is not even an American guy.

The Nuttings are from the Tri-State region.  I did not see any "Pittsburgh guys" lining up to invest in the team in the late 90's when they needed it.  Only Mark Cuban flapping his mouth when the team is not for sale.

Kevin and BFD,

The Nuttings were not even principal owners until the losing streak was well into the double digits.  McClatchy did not even own the team until year 4.

You don't build a team just to have a winning record, you build one to compete and win championships. How many people in this town would be happy with the Steelers, Penguins or even Pitt basketball for that matter just having a winning record? Yeah, it sucks that the Pirates have become the laughingstock of baseball but a lot of that has to do with having two of the worst GM's in baseball history back to back. You don't blow every penny you have, at the risk of financial instability for a franchise already on an uneven playing field,  just for the sake of maybe 10-15 extra wins a year which would only make this team a .500 team. You do that when you already have a good team of core talent in place and need that extra push to get over the top, which the Pirates have never had the last 16 years.

I hated to see Bay go as much as anyone. The trades had to happen because of bare minor league system caused by the total ineptitude of Littlefield. Except for Maholm, the pitching at the major league level failed and the Pirates had absolutely no one to call up to competently take their place. Bringing in a couple high priced pitchers would not have made this team one of championship caliber with all of the other holes this team still has. There's no guarantee that would have even made the team competitive. C.C. Sabathia and A.J. Burnett have worked out real well for the Yankees so far this year, haven't they?

Those of you blaming Nutting for all 16 years, that's rediculous. McClatchy didn't even take over the team until '97 and the Nuttings didn't have any serious involvment until a few years later, when McClatchy had to increasingly sell more of his shares to the Nuttings. Remember too, as bad as McClatchy screwed things up on the field, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now if it wasn't for him.

Bob

I refused to post on this site because of your anti-Pirate rants, however today you have written everything that I think about the current Pirates and done it better than I could, of course you did not convince any Nutting hater of anything good about Bob Nutting. People like to live in their little world, and when it comes to the Pirates........in the past.

They have no facts, they use opinions and opinions are like all gossip, it just spreads until someone thinks the opinions are facts.

I thought Littlefield did a lot of good things and their were times when I defended him, actually his draft picks help make up the core of this team now.

What he tried to do was win with average to below average players and not spend money on the draft, that was his biggest mistake.

Did McClatchy control spending on the draft? we don't really know, do we?

Did not Mr. Nutting make or back the decision to bid against ourselves to pay Matt Morris $10 million? Then in the same time frame refused to even consider drafting a legitimate future superstar Matt Wieters (how's that Danny Moskos pick looking now?) because he was a Boras client? We could have both him and Pedro Alvarez in the system. Small-market teams need to draft smart. What a bunch of missed opportunities, driven by penny-wise but pound-foolish thinking.

Bob, what are you now a right wing talk radio host who says things to get "liberals" angry? You don't believe one word of this. Nutting sold Bay and Nady to sign Pedro Alvaraz. If they take another Boras client this June, then you will see Wilson and Sanchez and Andy gone. Nutting stayed behind the scene for good reason.

For the record: I believe every word of what I wrote.  -- Bob Smizik

Demery,

Do you honestly believe Nutting had to sell Bay & Nady to sign Alvarez? Do you really believe drafting anyone, regardless of their agent, will have any impact at all on Wilson, Sanchez, or Andy "not yet arbitration eligible" LaRoche?

$50 million is enough to get competitive. It will probably take more to get over the top. About 50 years ago, the Pirates lost 100 games but had home run king Ralph Kiner. They traded Kiner in the offseason to get prospects because, as the team said, "we can lose 100 games without him." You trade away while someone wants them to hopefully get more in return. If the Bucs aren't with 2 or 3 games of the Wild Card spot by the trade deadline, I'd be entertaining offers for everyone and would sell anyone for the right price, Maholm, Doumit, McLouth included.

@Demery: Actually, the Pirates didn't get much of anything for Kiner and he was traded in June of 1953, not the offseason. The big prize for the Pirates was the $150,000 in cash the Cubs sent over for him. Ultimately, none of the seven players that were traded to the Pirates did much of anything for the team. They would have gotten a lot more for him if Branch Rickey traded him about two years earlier as it was clear by 1953 that Kiner was on the downside of his career.

While I am pleased with the way this Pirates team has started the season, I can't help wondering why this regime did not make more of an effort to obtain either Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu. Either of these players could have been had for very little. Yes, Bob Nutting has made some strides toward reversing the notion that this front office is notoriously cheap, but I still detect more than a remnant of the old scent sometimes. It's as if I just don't know who to blame.  

The Pirates loosing seasons had nothing to do with ownership. The problem was always with the so called "baseball people".  Kevin McClatchy was up front when he bought the team saying he was not a baseball  guy and would depend on his "baseball people"  Former GM's Cam Bonifay and Dave Littlefield and the people they hired did a disservice to McClatchy and the Pirates.  The bad decisions made by Bonifay and Littlefield put the Pirates years behind where they should be.

The ownership has very little do with the Bucs success. The horrible drafting is one factor. Drafting in baseball is an inexact science but take a look at these examples over the years of just the first round blunders...

2007 – Matt Wieters over Danny Moskos

2006 – Tim Lincecum , Clayton Kershaw, or Max Scherzer over Brad Lincoln

2005 – Andrew McCutchen –  I'll take it !

2004  – Jered Weaver , Stephen Drew , or Billy Butler over Neil Walker

2003   – Lastings Milledge, Chad Billingsly ,or Conor Jackson over Paul Maholm

2002 – BJ Upton, Prince Fielder, Zack Greinke, Jeremy Hermida, Khalil Greene, Scott Kazmir, Nick Swisher, Cole Hamels, James Loney, Jeff Francoeur, or Matt Cain over Bryan Bullington

2001 – Casey Kotchman or Mike Fontenot over John VanBenschoten

2000 – Adam Wainwright over Sean Burnett

1999 – Barry Zito, Ben Sheets, Brett Myers, or Alex Rios over Bobby Bradley

1998 – Brad Lidge over Clinton Johnson

1997 – Lance Berkman, Michael Cuddyer, or Jason Werth over JJ Davis

1996 – Gil Meche over Kris Benson

1995 – Roy Halladay or Matt Morris over Chad Hermanson

1994 – Jason Varitek, Nomar Garciaparra, or Paul Konkerko over Mark Farris

Nutting aside, the Bucs demise was a slippery slope after 1992....I moved to CA that year and didn't you know it Barry Barcolounger Bonds was right behind me!  Watching the Buccos from afar it was apparent there was a vacuum of leadership in the front office as detailed above in the daft and the signing of flea agents...So here's to Nuttin-n-Honey, and a break fast of 17 surreal years.

Gamecockfn

I stand by what I wrote.

You have misrepresented what I wrote. Examples:

1. Point 1 stands as written. I never mentioned I wanted Daniel Snyder. The Yankees do not stink. They consistently win, are often in the World Series, and have won more World Series in the past 10 years than the Pirates have won in the past 80.

2. Point 2 stands as written. I did not say Jason Bay signed a free agent contract with the Pirates. Jason Bay did express a willingness to remain with the Pirates. This means of course, a free agent contract.

3. Point 3 stands, exactly as written. Bob Nutting threw Dave Littlefield under the bus over the Matt Morris debacle, probably correctly, by saying that he has to trust his baseball people. But Dave Littlefield was employed at the pleasure of Bob Nutting, Bob signed Dave's paycheck, and personally approved the deal. In my opinion, Bob's unwillingness to take his share of responsibility bordered on emotional cowardice.

4. Point 4 stands, as written. Dan and Mario are perhaps the most popular owners in sports. Dan has lived in Pittsburgh some 77 years; Mario some 23. They are Pittsburgh guys. Mr Nutting , so far as I know, still officially resides and votes in W Va., though he no doubt has some sort of residence here.

Pittsburgh is very provincial. Not being a Pittsburgh guy may be Mr Nutting's biggest sin.

George:  How do you explain Ron Burkle, who has more stock than anyone in the Penguins and does not hail from these parts? What about the Galbreath family? What about Howard Baldwin? Edward DeBartolo?  Those people all owned championship franchises and did not live in Pittsburgh. Where an owner lives is not a factor. -- Bob Smizik

Bob,  

Your critical eye is on spot as usual, usually the one topic we have not met eye to eye on has been our Bucco's.  me being the guy who organizes and then brings the koolaid to the gathering.

Funny thing about people with sound thought processes, they get half the people upset.

I want to thank you for putting the pen to paper with the truth.

So, the nuttings have been lurking in real control behind the scenes just because a few bloggers say it so, poppycock!

You can add one more conspiracy, Bob was iin control and secretly pushed kevin and Dave into failure just so he could talk his dad into the team for him.  To do this the right way for his personal pocketbook, he needed to drive the value of the team down behind his dads back so he could get to his real motivation a losing team making him money, Hogwash!

So, its about time the whinersd stop,

www.youtube.com/watch

I believe that it is totally possible for Nutting to be the majority owner and that McClatchy and Littlefield ran the team.  Just because someone owns a business doesn't mean they make every decision.

It seems to me that Nutting has started to make the right decisions, including hires & fires, to make the team better.

When you minor and major leagues are absolutely terrible it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fix them at the same time.  

CuriousGeorge wrote

"1. Point 1 stands as written. I never mentioned I wanted Daniel Snyder. The Yankees do not stink. They consistently win, are often in the World Series, and have won more World Series in the past 10 years than the Pirates have won in the past 80."

Yankees - 2 in 10 years

Pirates - 5 in 80

$50M is still too low, but regardless of the payroll, they need to make better decisions.  The lack of success in first round picks, picking up dubious over-priced free agents, and the like are no way to invest in the team.  

(Forbes has Pirates player expense at $65M.  I am not sure where we pull accurate numbers to compare teams.)

George,

1. No they have not.  Do the math again.  The Yankees have the same record as the Pirates, and a terrible pitching staff.  All by spending about 4 times what the Pirates spend.  The Devil Rays made it to the World Series last year with a sub $50mm payroll.  So, to answer your origninal point, $50mm is cleary acceptable if spent correctly.  The Pirates are spending additional money to add the right players through the draft and internationally.  Nutting is showing you the money, but you are looking for Mark Teixiera.  Never going to happen, does not matter if Warren Buffett and Bill Gates were co-owners, although they are not "Pittsburgh guys".

2 Per your previous post: "Good players are willing to sign free-agent contracts to play for the Pirates. See: Bay, Jason. But it is going to cost. Deal with it, Mr Nutting."

No they are not, and Bay certainly would not have.  Being interested and doing are two differnt things.  Why on Earth would Bay accept less money to play for a terrible team?  That makes no sense.  Furthermore, go players do not sign with losing teams.  That is a fact.  

Please name one player that signed with a small market team to a big free agent contract.  Same with losing teams.  Signing players like that never works, and you will not find an instance that it did.

Bay was not, a free agent, and when he is one this fall, he will not sign with the Pirates.  Even if he is a "Pittsburgh guy", by making his home in the suburbs.

3 Bob Nutting is not a baseball executive.  He is an owner. He hired others to run the team and hire the players to make the team win.  Again, do you want Peter Angelos to buy the team?  Or Dan Snyder?  Nutting approved the deal because they convinced him that the team would be better off for it.  He also allowed NH and FC to release Morris, again showing you the money.  You want him to show you the money, but when he does, you do not like it.  DL also told Nutting that Danny Moskos was the right pick two years ago.  

Do you think Mike Duke hires the truck drivers, greeters, and cashiers?  That is what management is hired for.

4  Bob stole my rebuttal here, but your theory on Pittsburgh guys means nothing.  As he said, the majority owner in the Penguins lives in California.  Are the Steelers going to suffer because of all the non-Pittsburgh guys that bought into the team?  Who is this mystery Pittsburgh guy that wanted to invest in the team? Was Edward DeBartolo a big sinner as well? Howard Baldwin?  

Being provincial should insult people that are from Pittsburgh or live there.  I do not believe people are too dumb to realize that outsiders can run their sports teams.  

Texiera agent used the Nationals to drive the price up for the Yankees to sign him. That's just smart business. I do not believe the offered more than the Yankees. Who would want to play for the Nationals. They are a lot worse than the Pirates.

Bill,

Teixeira signed for 22.5 per year over 8 years. The Nats offered 23 million over 8.

Bob,

The first name changes, but a Nutting is a Nutting, Bob. I would refer you to Dejan Kovacevic's breakdown of what he believes to be the costs that the Pirates have versus the returns provided by baseball's revenue sharing system. We consistently spend less than teams in similar "markets," while continuing to play horrible baseball. However, the Pirates continually make a handsome profit due to the fact that Pittsburgh Pirate fans have inexplicably continued  to support this awful baseball team. In fairness to you, Dejan also seems to be toting the "It's not Bob Nutting's fault" colors for the same principal reason that you site i.e. Bob Nutting just took over. If only it were that simple...

I don't care whether it's Bob's father, uncle, cousin or dog that used to run the team (or be the principal owner), it is within the family. Bob, at best, was sitting idly by while his inheritance grew through his family's manipulation of various governments to build a stadium with public funds that has proven to be a cash cow. At the same time, they continued to send out a team that would have struggled playing one level down. In fact, here in Europe, bottom soccer teams are relegated to the next level down to avoid precisely the situation in which the owners can manipulate their place in the highest league to continue to earn profit.

You can say, yes, they are now investing in Latin America, investing more in the draft, and that they will spend on players when they have the right ones (how about Adam LaRoche?), but how do we know? It is not as if investing in Latin America or the draft were closely held industry secrets. Do you think the Nuttings just woke up one day, and said "hey, let's check out our LA operation?!" It took them a decade or so longer than everyone else to realize this was important. If I'm heavily invested in a business than is producing the same poor result over and over, I start asking questions when I become the Chairmen of the Board (which Bob did in 2003), not 2007 or 2008!?

Mr. Smizik, Dejan's objectivity won't let him overly criticize ownership. We need you to keep up the pressure. I attend a Buccos game or two and it is a serious moral challenge to overcome each time. I think this blog is a bit misguided in that it benchmarks Bob's performance against complete ineptitude (and therefore makes him come out looking alright) rather than benchmarking his overall performance against real organizations. The Pirates have been hoarding cash for ages, making it on the back of the taxpayer. So, now that they are spending a bit of that, it shouldn't draw applause. Think of it this way, would the Buccos' chances of success be better or worse if all Nuttings sold all interests in the team (without even specifying to whom)? My answer: a resounding yes.

Saturday, 12:30 a.m. Q: To analyze Bob Nutting's role in the Pirates, one must start with finances

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