A call, seriously, to trade Crosby

"Because he is the face of the NFL, Crosby would bring more in a trade than most players of his ability"

No proof reading? I mean, Sid is marketable, but is he THAT makertable?

Anyways, anyone anywhere who seriously suggests trading Crosby should stop talking about hockey.

I'm not saying trade him but . . .

Herschel Walker won the Dallas Cowboys a few Super Bowls

Eric Lindros brought a bounty of talent to the Qubec/Colorado Avalanche

Jason Bay and Xavier Nady helped the Pirates finish even worse than before the trade

Two out of three ain't bad

"Anyways, anyone anywhere who seriously suggests trading Crosby should stop talking about hockey."

It doesn't follow.  The Penguins have been missing the types of players that they couldn't afford to keep (Malone, Ruutu, etc.,) because they have two top tier centers.  Trading one of those centers could provider much needed depth, and spread out the talent among the lines.  A balance of talent, and role players wins over a talent alone.  Malkin is the better of the two, so if you are going to trade someone in order to spread out the talent then Sid is the logical choice.  Barring a trade of Sid then they should at least consider treating him as the no. 2 center on the team, because that is what he is.  Don't get me wrong, I like Sid, he is supremely talented, but he is not untouchable IMO.  

Wait, I'm confused.  In the title it says "A call, seriously, to trade Crosby", but then in the next to last paragraph you write "Such a deal is fun to discuss, but should not be seriously considered."  It looks like a "call" to get people to read your blog.

Bob, you are either being coy or naive to the blogging world when you bring up a subject like trading Crosby and then say, "But let's end it there." I know nothing about hockey and care even less, but I bet this subject blows up bigtime.

So, what team could give the Penguins enough for Crosby?

Answer: None.

Malkin might be the best player in the world right now, but that doesn't mean you consider trading the #2 best in the world. Think about this seriously...what bounty could you possibly expect a team to give up to get Crosby? An entire line of "top 6" forwards, in their prime or younger? No team is going to give up that much. You're not getting a goalie because of Fleury, and we're already trading AWAY defensemen. So, you're basically acquiring forwards and draft picks. You need to get more than what the Pens gave up to get Hossa & Dupuis.

If you are San Jose, do you give up Cowboy Joe, Devin Setoguchi, and a couple of draft picks including at least 1 first rounder for Crosby?

If you are Boston, would you give up Savard, Kessel, and probably a couple of draft picks including at least 1 first rounder for Crosby?

I think answer to this is probably not.  If you are the Pens, can you even afford all of these guys for a reasonable length of time to justify trading Crosby? Again, probably not. You'd have to acquire guys under 30 and already signed to multi-year deals. You know...the ones like Crosby signed, because those guys are their teams' respective backbones too.

It might be nice to sort of chat about like Bob says, but this isn't fantasy hockey where you do this in your leisure. Shero not only would be fired if it didn't work out, but probably black-balled from ever getting another GM position in the league.

Sorry folks, but my guess is this only happens if the Pens end up in serious financial trouble again. Edmunton didn't trade Gretzky because they thought the bounty in return was greater than he was.

@The Watchmen

Why then does no one ask the Red Wings to trade Datsyuk or Zetterberg? Don't say having 2 top tier centers cannot be done. It seems the Wings manage to keep role players like Franzen, Holmstrom, Cleary, etc. Oh, and Marian Hossa. That should be the model the Pens should follow.

The Oilers kept Wayne and Messier together. Also, two pretty good centers. The Oilers traded him because the owner was losing money on other business ventures and Wayne grew "sour" on him.

If you honestly believe trading the face of the NHL in order to get role players like Malone, Rutuu, Laraque, Hall, etc. then you shouldn't be commenting on hockey.

Seriously, this is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. It gives the Penguins fan base a bad name, especially knowing that every other team in the league would kill to be in our situation. Except the Wings of course.

Okay, let me put all this "trade Crosby" talk to rest with 1 simple thought. It has nothing to do with stats or leadership or what we could get for him. It as simple as this... Do you want to be the team playing AGAINST Sidney Crosby? Hell no you don't. Case closed.

@ firefox

Amen. The same people who want to trade Crosby are probably people who wanted Bradshaw benched and wanted Byron instead of Ben this season. Wow, that would've worked out really well. They also probably view Doug Mienwhatshisname as the hustling savior of Pirates baseball. For how passionate Pittsburgh fans are, sometimes they are equally as dumb.

Trading Sidney Crosby would be the most idiotic move Ray Shero could make, and anyone who would suggest such a move should not cover hockey, or sports in general. Seriously.

"Trading Sidney Crosby would be the most idiotic move Ray Shero could make, and anyone who would suggest such a move should not cover hockey, or sports in general. Seriously."

Bob didn't make the suggestion, and I don't cover hockey or sports in general so I'm not sure who this comment is geared toward.  I would suggest that no one has put forward the premise that we can't win without him and that is why we should keep him.  Which is good because we know that we can win without him.  I don't recall it being a big story who Ron Francis would play with, but we always seem to ask the question of the current no 2 center on this team.  If it weren't for that consideration we wouldn't have gone through the process of removing good role players to get rent-a-player Hossa.  

As to who we could possibly get that would be of equal value I would point out that player movement of this magnitude would involve more than one team.  The best reason for keeping Sid isn't that he is irreplaceable.  It is that he is a young, talented, and from all accounts a good guy, but please stop treating him like he is the centerpiece on a team that scores more goals without him, and wins more often without him in the lineup.  .  

Name a player that could replace Crosby. You will not find a player who is better and yet to reach their prime like Crosby.

If Crosby isn't on the Pens last year, they probably don't make it to the cup. And they probably don't win two games vs. the Wings.

The difference in the with/without argument is 10 points in an 82 game season. 5 games! If Crosby is gone, over time the team will wear down and most likely make that stat irrelevant. And what if Malkin goes down? There is no logical argument for trading Crosby. So i'll say it, we could not, over the course of an entire season, win without Crosby.

voice of reason.  I respect that opinion.  The sampling we have of Sid being out is small, and the NHL season is a struggle of attrition, so it isn't a gurantee that they would continue to win over the long haul.

"I don't recall it being a big story who Ron Francis would play with."

That's because he played with the likes of Kevin Stevens, Joe Mullen, Petr Nedved and Jaromir Jagr.  What winger has Sid played with who compares with those guys?

"Bob didn't make the suggestion, and I don't cover hockey or sports in general so I'm not sure who this comment is geared toward."

____

What do you mean? The title of the article is "A call, seriously, to trade Crosby". It is suggested right there.

He even says he suggested to the players that maybe they should trade him. Bad idea. I know it was in fun, and I wouldn't mind except he went into detail of what the Penguins could get for Sid.

The Pens would never (nor should they) trade Sidney Crosby. So what is the point in discussing what they could get for him? Bob seems to be suggesting that there could be an upside to trading Sid. There isn't. Any talk of trading Crosby is just foolish.

Oh and the Pens have gone 3-0 without Sid recently because the Stars and Islanders are terrible, and the team is working hard under Bylsma.

On a side note, it was said: "Malkin is constantly asked to play out of position so Sid doesn’t have to." Malkin is constantly asked to play out of position, not so Sid doesn't have to, but because Malkin can. Sid wouldn't be a great wing, he just doesn't have the shot. Malkin does. He is versatile. That's why he plays wing while the duo is put together. Plus Sid is better at faceoffs.

Now wait a minute here, hold your horses, Goat.  Sid had the opportunity to play with Malone and Sykora too last year, Geno just did better with them.  When Sid struggles Malkin is asked to play out of position, on Sid's wing, to help out as well.  Why isn't the reverse true?  In other words why does Sid get preferental treatment on this team?  That is the real issue here.

Your point seems to be that we need better wingers in general, which brings us to the reason why one would contemplate moving Sid.  If you could get depth on wing then it might be worth it.  I think a case could be made either way, but for whatever reason Penguin fans find this later to be anathema.  

"Why does Sid get preferental treatment on this team?"

You assume that Malkin is somehow being punished by being banished to the wing.  I think that he is just more of a natural fit.  Sid is a better playmaker and Malkin is a better shooter.

How is playing with Tyler Kennedy and Pascal Dupuis preferential treatment?

My point is that "we" need better wings to play with Sid.  If "you" trade Sid, that kind of defeats the purpose.

In his fourth year, 1984-85, Ron Francis had 81points playing with the likes of Sylvain Turgeon and Ray Neufeld.  How did trading him work out for the Hartford Whalers?

Trade the Bing?

This whole topic is a joke, sorry.

Naming your post "A call, seriously, to trade Crosby" and then coming out and saying, "Such a deal is fun to discuss, but should not be considered,"... joke.

What could you possibly get for Crosby that would be justifiable in the long run. Sid's locked up for a long time and is still very young, meaning he can still develop. No one else in the league, except AO has that amount of time left in his contract and nearly as much skill and talent as Crosby, and, frankly, I don't want him. Washington can keep him and his 400+ shots. As for other prolific wingers? None have quite as much youth as Crosby or time on their contracts, and you cannot guarantee their willingness to resign. Marian Hossa? He made it pretty clear what the price for his loyalty was. Marty St. Louis and Milan Hejduk? Ancient. Ilya Kovalchuk? Somewhat youthful but he's no Crosby talent-wise. Plus, there's no guarantee he would stay with only one more season left on his contract after this one. Core players are not to be moved lightly; if Shero made such a deal and it didn't work out, he would almost certainly be fired by 66.

You just...don't know anything about hockey.  How do I know this? Because you dropped the infamous "we wouldn't have gone through the process of removing good role players to get rent-a-player Hossa." bomb.

Satan: 17 goals and 36 points

Armstrong: 15goals and 25 points

Erik Christensen has a whopping 5 goals this year and has only played in 46 games.  

Seriously, stop talking about trading Crosby until you learn something about the game of hockey.  Crosby might be the "second best center" on the team, but he's also the "second best center" in the world.  Period.

He's 21, has a scoring title, an mvp, a player mvp, a division title, and an eastern conference championship.  You just really have no idea how big a deal it is what he has accomplished.  If you don't know who the Penguins can get  - " If you could get depth on wing then it might be worth it" - then stop talking about a trade.  Because if you actually, ya know, look and try to come up with a deal you'd see it just isn't possible.

People screamed that we were "mortgaging the future" when we traded some below average 3rd liners for quite possibly the best right wing in the game, and then I hear talk about trading Crosby.  Which do you think sounds more ridiculous?

amen

In my mind, I think that the Pens tend to score more and play "better" without Sid in the lineup simply because when he is there, the guys on the ice tend to sort of stand around and watch Sid. I remember Dupuis I believe it was, saying last season that he was distracted on one move by Sid to the point that he forgot what he was supposed to do and didnt get into position. Simply we need players to not be in awe of his ability and do their job.

Lets hope things don't ever get so bad that we would have to trade Crosby(or Malkin)! Because things would really have to be bad for that to happen...like when we traded Jagr bad...

Crosby is a whining cry-baby, if you could trade him to Washington for Ovechkin, I'd be all for it ... Imagine Malkin centering a line with Ovechkin? You could put Smizik on the other wing & the line would still be the best in the world

Let's try something for fun...

I don't want Crosby traded, and he will NEVER be traded, but for fun...who might have the talent to put a deal together, and what could we get?  Let's assume that any trade would not be a 1 for 1 deal, but a Crosby for a package trade.

How would a Crosby to the Capitals for Semin, Mike Green, and another young player look?  Could be beneficial for both teams I would think.  What other scenarios are out there?

Should the Pens trade Crosby?  I think the better question is must they trade him.  No one has mentioned the salary cap problems that having 2 out of the 3 best players in the world on 1 team, not to mention a world class goalie, present.  A small market team like the Pens will be cashed strapped to keep all 3 of them in ordinary times.  But with the economy in the dumps, the NHL salary cap is expected to drop $6-$8 million.  Try to keep all 3 of these players and you'll only be able to afford 3rd and 4th liners on your top 2 lines.  That's a big reason why they are reluctant to trade Staal and signed him to a new contract.  Having Staal as your #2 center is a strong compliment to either Sid/Geno on the #1 line.  But as for Sid and Geno?  Enjoy them together now because within 2 years, we'll be booing one of them when their new team visits the Consol Arena.

No, you don't trade Sidney Crosby. You put better players around him.

Evgeni Malkin has good chemistry with Petr Sykora. Who has Crosby had on his line? Talbot? Satan? Dupuis? Please.

When Ray Shero addresses this problem, Crosby will confirm his status as the best player in the world -- no questions asked.

A lot of this is stemming simply because Crosby is not having a great season (by his standards, not general NHL standards) and because of the struggles of the team in general this season.

I, among a growing number, feel that Malkin has emerged as the best player in the world at the moment. That, however, does not mean that Crosby is the problem. The Penguins simply lost too much to injuries and free agency from last season and they need to retool over the offseason for next year by bringing in some talented depth, not only to play with Crosby but to shore up the other deficiencies that have been exposed this season.

Another big improvement and maybe the most important one that needs to be made with the team is that when both Malkin and Crosby are in the lineup, the others players on the team need to be able to play with both as leaders on the ice instead of the confusion caused that has been so much as admitted in recent press.

Penguins -Will the Penguins hang on to Rob Scuderi ? -Bob Smizik examines the idea of trading Sidney

Wow! Bob you really stirred the pot with this one! You can all relax, Mario would veto any trade of Sid that Shero might put together. If the Pens miss the playoffs, Crosby's rent money will be his only positive income this year!

No one thought Gretzky would ever be traded either. But he was, twice.

Now, I am not advocating a trade. As Santo Gold correctly points out though there are considerations you have to make in the cap era. How much as a total percentage of the cap can you have invested in 3 or 4 players and still be successful?

A number of folks are calling for "better talent" for Sid, but how do you pay for that when you are already at or near cap? Better players will cost more, not less.

Second point. Having 2 players like Sid and Malkin can be a problem for each. Why? Both need a lot of ice time and both function best when they have space and can control the puck. Imagine Mario in his prime playing with Jagr in his prime. The need for all that ice time is not complimentary and in fact works against both Malkin and Sid. Look at how often Malkin is double-shifted. Sid seems to be able to jump out again quickly after a brief time on the bench. Sooner or later they are both out there and to be most effective they both "need" the puck.

Trading one or the other is an interesting question and it would give the opportunity to build an offense around one player rather than around two exceedingly good players who have different skill sets.

Like I've been saying -- Crosby to Atlanta for Kovalchuk and Atlanta's first-round pick this year.

This turns the Penguins into Stanley Cup contenders right now.  The Penguins are already a better team without Crosby -- magine what they would look like with Kovalchuk on Malkin's wing.

The trade also saves Pittsburgh 2.5 million on next year's cap, and allows them to decide whether they want to sign Kovalchuck to a long-term deal after the '09-'10 season.  And by the way, that first-round pick is very likely to yield Victor Hedman from Sweden.

As for Atlanta, the trade will begin the turn-around of a struggling franchise  that needs to build a fan base.

Oneal

I should not have read this or posted because it is just doing exactly what bob shizit gets paid for... Make ignorant & illogical post to stir up drama in order to generate ad sales.

If you played hockey, you would understand how important chemistry is between players. If you don't know what I am talking about, watch Miracle. Crosby is a pure playmaker and to make a playmaker effective... you put a sniper on his line.

Therrien was notorious for juggling the lines since day 1. Crosby even lead the league in points by turning grinders into goal scorers. Crosby never had a chance to build chemistry with a finisher/sniper.

Crosby was beginning to play well with sykora until he was hurt. That was when therrien saw "chemistry" between geno syk & malone. Crosby's next chance to have a scoring winger ended up going to Detroit.

Given Crosby's potential and history, I can't believe that I am reading this stuff from the people who should be behind him.

All you Crasby bashers are just  unfaithful, illogical & unloyal.  No player is going to want to play for the pens the way you treat them. Go bandwagon for philly please, we don't want you bringing our boys down.

"No one thought Gretzky would ever be traded either. But he was, twice."

Maybe you should actually learn the circumstances of that initial trade before using it as an example.  No one thought he would be traded, but they also didn't count on Edmonton's owner not having enough money to afford player salaries (this is pre-salary cap, remember).  He wasn't moved to make the team better, he got shopped so they could bring up the bottom line.

"Look at how often Malkin is double-shifted. Sid seems to be able to jump out again quickly after a brief time on the bench. "

Their average ice time is near identical.  If you can get them both on the ice for 22 minutes a game, I doubt there are issues with ice time.  Also, they're 1st and 3rd in scoring, their production is really being hampered out there.

Why is having the two best centers -in the world- bad again?  You guys are either amazing trolls or completely void of any hockey knowledge.

Sid is the face of the Penguins and NHL. Trading him would be stupid.

I do have concerns on whether Sid is right to be Captain. The NHL players poll showed Sid to be the biggest cry baby on the ice. If that is the same in the locker room then the team is a rudderless ship!

@ ericPitt: Nice, if you disagree with someone, just call them a troll or "void of knowledge" and et vola! You "win" the discussion! People here give their opinion - it's not dogma - and the great thing about hockey is the creativity and differences between players/styles/teams. If there were only one way of doing things it would be a dull sport.

I do know a bit about hockey and a bit about Gretzky/trades. I was making a rhetorical point that no one thought he would ever be traded, yet it happened - not that the circumstances are identical to Malkin/Crosby.

@ syniper: I am not bashing Crosby at all - I don't want to see either of them go. In the cap world though I do not know how you can keep both for an extended time.

As far as ice time being identical, my issue is not how much they are on the ice but how much of that time is spent on it together. Since both players are puck-controllers, overlap in time is an issue as teams can load-up to defend both at the same time.

And yeah, a true sniper would be cool to have but again under the cap how do you pay for him? How much do you have to dimish the balance of the roster by having low-priced forwards and d-men? And once you do that, what good is the sniper when you lose games routinely 8 - 6?

All this screaming about how the Penguins shouldn't trade Crosby is ridiculous-if the  goal is to win, they absolutely should trade him IF they can get enough in return. The Red Wings are better than the Penguins, and they don't have Crosby, which proves he isn't NEEDED to build a great team.

No trade can be evaluated unless you know what the other side is offering.

Greatest trade by a Pittsburgh franchise in last 25 years-Tony Pena (fan favorite and best player on team) to St. Louis.  

Pingback from  The Morning Skate: Eastern Promises as Trade Deadline Nears - Slap Shot Blog - NYTimes.com

@ kevin morris:

You've forgotten about Jeff Parker, Zarley Zalapski and John Cullen to Hartford for Ron Francis, Ulf Samuelsson and Grant Jennings?

Yes, the Pena deal turned out to be great but ultimately, the Pens deal was a big part of the two Stanley Cup championships that were won.

It does bring up one interesting question.  Can you name an all time great or elite player in either baseball or football who was traded in their prime.  Don't consider those who were traded purely for financial reasons (Babe Ruth) or those at the end of their careers (Aaron, Unitas, Montana).  I don't know if this has ever happened.  When you have a player who is the best in the game, you don't trade him.  If so, name me one.  Frank Robinson might be a consideration, but he wasn't one of the best 2 or 3 in baseball at the time.